Unidentified 1980´s Missile/drone in Nammajaure Sweden

[Hamp1983]

I am doing some research about a possible missile/drone sighting in the 1980's, in Muddus national park in the north of Sweden.

The witnesses say they saw a cigar shaped object with fins or tubes at the end of it.
It flew approximately 100 meters over them.
Then it flew about 600 meters out over a lake. did a 180 degree turn to the left, landed (not crashed) in the lake and sank. It bubbled heavily around it when it sank.

They also mentioned that it sounded like it was navigating in the air. The sound was unevenly. Like it was giving many thrusts.
And that they estimated the speed too between 300 to 400 km/h.

Does any one have an idea of what it could be?
Is it many missile or drones with this specific shape?

I have attached a drawing made of the witnesses description.

Here are a link to ufo-sverige with a article (in Swedish) about the sighting.
They have made two expeditions to the lake.

Thank you for your time!

 

[Brian M. B. Pedersen]

Interesting.
About the engine sound, could it be the sound of a RAM jet?
Like the German V-1 bomb?
It sounds very uneven and "spits" and "cough".
When they say "landed in the lake", did it VTOL or landed like a amphibian plane?
It appears that the link does not work.

 

[TinWing]

Interesting.
About the engine sound, could it be the sound of a RAM jet?
Like the German V-1 bomb?
It sounds very uneven and "spits" and "cough".
When they say "landed in the lake", did it VTOL or landed like a amphibian plane?
It appears that the link does not work.

My thoughts exactly. Pulsejets are simple enough to build for even enthusiasts. Actually, in the same period some Saab engineers built a working full scale replica of a V-1….. Saab automotive engineers, not aerospace. I remember seeing a picture of it on display in a car mag, so I assume that replica wasn’t tested and didn’t crash into a lake. Not sure if there were any subscale prototypes. All the same, it goes to show that pulsejets are accessible enough to explain this incident.

 

[Hamp1983]

As I understand it landed like an amphibian plane.
Sorry missed the link.

Here is it: https://www.ufo.se/index.php/spokraketen-i-nammajaure

 

[Brian M. B. Pedersen]

Thank you, im Danish so i can read a bit of Norwegian and Swedish.

If it landed like an amphibian, it was designed to do so and the sub-surface of the lake was its deliberate destination.
The bubbles could be from the engines.
If it had any purpose underwater i dont know, but it could also be a deliberate attempt to get rid of any proof of its existence in a quick and easy way, perhaps due to running out of fuel, completion of assignment or some kind of malfunction.
And the uneven engine could be a RAM/pulse-jet or anything like it, and if it was comming in for landing the engine would most likely be at idle, that can also make it run uneven depending on engine type.

Ive had my own "could-not-explain-with-know-knowledge" back in the late 80´s and early 90´s.
But it was several lights in the nightsky, not a physical object like this case.

 

[Hamp1983]

What about the 180 degree turn before the landing? Was it possible to do that in the 1980´s?
And could that be done without any large wings on the missile/drone?

 

[Hood]

Doesn't sound like much of a mystery to me.

The description of the layout and drawing looks very much like the Nord Aviation CT20 target drone, which was used by the Swedish Air Force. It was even designed to be buoyant so they could be recovered following water landings.

 

[Dilandu]

The description of the layout and drawing looks very much like the Nord Aviation CT20 target drone, which was used by the Swedish Air Force. It was even designed to be buoyant so they could be recovered following water landings.

Agreed, the description fit the CT20 almost exactly:

 

[Brian M. B. Pedersen]

What about the 180 degree turn before the landing? Was it possible to do that in the 1980´s?
And could that be done without any large wings on the missile/drone?

It all depends on what they mean by "180 degree".
What is important is not the 180, but the radius of the turn, everything flying can do a 180 degree turn.
Or do they mean 180 turn in that the object turned 180 on its own axis?
As the other two says, it looks and sound much like that target drone.

 

[Hamp1983]

All god suggestions/guesses.
The Missile/drone was about 3 meters long (about 10 feet).

I would read it as it had some radius when doing the turn. It did not turn around its own axis.

The couple was on a hike in the national park of Muddus when this happened.
They reported it a couple of days later to the Swedish military.

The military did some research.
They checked with the rocket test facility "Vidsel Test Range" if there were any rocket tests that day. But there weren't any.

They also sent a helicopter a couple of days later to search the lake. On board was an engineer
and expert of radar and robots. They flew for an hour but couldn't see anything because of the muddy water.

All this is information from the website of ufo-Sverige

Spökraketen i Nammajaure

UFO-Sverige, UFO-Sweden, UFO, ufo, ufologi, observation, misstolkning, forskning, UFO-bilder, vetenskapsinriktad, folkbildning, riksorganisation, UFO-organisation, organisation, UFO-Aktuellt, Rapportnytt, UFO-Sveriges Radio, Ufopodden

www.ufo.se

and the author is Clas Svahn. Also president of the association.

 

[Brian M. B. Pedersen]

Did they check if there where some gunnery training that day, that would involve the object, within range of the area?
As the target drone is not classified as a rocket, i dont think that the absence of rocket launches that day concludes anything.
That lake sounds much like some of the lakes we have in my area in Denmark; many of the lakes are only a few meters deep, but they can have several meters of mud further down, making anything solid sink down lets say 4-5 meters down in only 2 meter of water.

The thing that makes me think it is human made is that its engines was breathing engines; oxygen mixed with fuel = combution = the enginesound.
If the thing was something secret, lets say a drone of some sort based on the target drone design i dont know, remember that just because the military dont have any official knowledge of it, does not mean that it is not of military origin.

Often you see parts of secret technology tested on known/public design, just to test some functionality/technology in part.
Lets say that some new navigation system was tested on that target drone; the test itself will be relative cheap because the target drone is relative mass-produced, the targetdrones technology is know, tested and tried so if anything goes wrong, you can often easily pinpoint the error on the new technology.

If the landing on the lake was a deliberately landing, it was most likely planned to land there, because they said that the engines made sound, and that means that they where running, if they where controllable i dont not know.
If there where autolanding technology available at that time that could fly the object to and land on the lake i dont know, but since Sweden is rich in valleys and mountains, i do not think that a radio controlled landing aided by a camera/tv signal is viable, unless there where a relay plane/antenna some where within range.

 

[Hood]

Mention of the Vidsel range makes me think that the Swedish military were worried that a Saab Rb 08 had gone rogue - the Rb 08 of course being a missile development of the CT 20 and looking fairly identical.
So yes, it rules out it wasn't an Rb 08 but not necessarily that it wasn't a CT 20.

 

[Hamp1983]

Did they check if there where some gunnery training that day, that would involve the object, within range of the area?
As the target drone is not classified as a rocket, i dont think that the absence of rocket launches that day concludes anything.
That lake sounds much like some of the lakes we have in my area in Denmark; many of the lakes are only a few meters deep, but they can have several meters of mud further down, making anything solid sink down lets say 4-5 meters down in only 2 meter of water.

The thing that makes me think it is human made is that its engines was breathing engines; oxygen mixed with fuel = combution = the enginesound.
If the thing was something secret, lets say a drone of some sort based on the target drone design i dont know, remember that just because the military dont have any official knowledge of it, does not mean that it is not of military origin.

Often you see parts of secret technology tested on known/public design, just to test some functionality/technology in part.
Lets say that some new navigation system was tested on that target drone; the test itself will be relative cheap because the target drone is relative mass-produced, the targetdrones technology is know, tested and tried so if anything goes wrong, you can often easily pinpoint the error on the new technology.

If the landing on the lake was a deliberately landing, it was most likely planned to land there, because they said that the engines made sound, and that means that they where running, if they where controllable i dont not know.
If there where autolanding technology available at that time that could fly the object to and land on the lake i dont know, but since Sweden is rich in valleys and mountains, i do not think that a radio controlled landing aided by a camera/tv signal is viable, unless there where a relay plane/antenna some where within range.

I´m 100 percent sure this thing is of human origin.
The question is who sent it, why did it land in that lake and what kind of missile/drone was it?

If it could be identified it would be easier to know how to search for it in the lake.
The theory is that it still lies on the bottom under a layer of mudd.

They have tried with divers, sonars and a magnetometer.

One question for example that could be answered if it would be identified is the following.
Is the "body" made mostly of metal (aluminum?) or composite material?

That could help when searching with a magnetometer or sonar.
What kind of echo would you get from the different materials?
This would minimize the risk of missing a find.

 

[shedofdread]

The issue of very tight turns could merely be one of viewing angle - Depending on the angle from which the observer sees the manoeuvring vehicle, a turn [seen from above] which is a normal radius can look impossibly tight.

I'd be quite sure this explains many of these stories of "can't be man made; impossible manoeuvres".

 

[Brian M. B. Pedersen]

If its a target drone, i assume that its relatively cheaply massproduced/easy to produce, therefore i assume aluminium or sheetmetal, like in a car.
There are many questions without answers, but i guess that those who really know, wont say.

 

[Apophenia]

Yes, the CT20 (or Rb 02 to give it its Flygvapnet designation) was of all-metal construction.

A minor issue, though, is that the Rb 02 served from 1964 until 1979. So, if this observation was made in the '80s, the Rb 02 would already have been retired. The similar-looking Rb 08 served with the Marinen until 1989. It would seem, therefore, that Hood's suggestion was the more probable.

 

[Brian M. B. Pedersen]

Yes, the CT20 (or Rb 02 to give it its Flygvapnet designation) was of all-metal construction.

A minor issue, though, is that the Rb 02 served from 1964 until 1979. So, if this observation was made in the '80s, the Rb 02 would already have been retired. The similar-looking Rb 08 served with the Marinen until 1989. It would seem, therefore, that Hood's suggestion was the more probable.

Or they used the remained airworthy airframes for testing purposes instead of just scrapping them.

 

[Hamp1983]

If the landing on the lake was a deliberately landing, it was most likely planned to land there, because they said that the engines made sound, and that means that they where running, if they where controllable i dont not know.
If there where autolanding technology available at that time that could fly the object to and land on the lake i dont know, but since Sweden is rich in valleys and mountains, i do not think that a radio controlled landing aided by a camera/tv signal is viable, unless there where a relay plane/antenna some where within range.

I think that the reflection about the controlling of the missile/drone that Brian M.B Pedersen mensions are worth considering when trying to solve this.
How advanced was the control hardware/software at the time (1980´s)?
If it was a missile with "autocontrol" wouldn't it go straight for the target and not do a 180 degree turn before hitting/landing?
And if it was remote controlled could it be launched from one controllstation and then overtaken from another station nearby? Perhaps from a height nearby the lake where it landed?