Unbuilt battleships of the 1940s


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24 June 2007
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Does anyone have any plans/sketches of the following -

1) 1940 'Province' class battleships (French Navy)

2) 'Super Yamato' class battleships No.798 and No.799 (IJN)


The 1940's French battleships after Richelieu group produce a lot of discussion.
See the Warships Projects board
and search for Alsace
Also http://xoomer.alice.it/bk/NWS/Marine_National/Alsace/image-html/Alsace_Designs.html

The book by Dumas is "Les cuirasses" Marines editions, 2001

You will find Super-Yamatos galore there too, not all of them "real" Beware!
There is also Japanese Super Battleship Designs (In 3 Parts) by Hans Lengerer VII
in Warship Vol 7
Re: French Unbuilt battleships of the 1940s

For those interested in the last French battleship designs I recommend French Battleships 19922-1956 by John Jordan and Robert Dumas . This book gives a complete history of the design development of French capital ships from 1922 to the completion of the Jean Bart post war. It also describes the problems that related to the building of large warships in France such as shipyard capabilities, the economy etc. I fully recommend this book to anyone interested in warship design.

On numerous internet sites the most popular option for the last battleship designs being worked on before the French surrender in 1940 is nearly always a 45,000 ton ship with 12 x 15” guns in quad turrets followed at a distance by a similar design of 42,500 tons with 9 x 16” guns in triple turrets. It appears that the leading contender was actually a 40,000 ton design with 9 x 15” guns in triple turrets. The French seem to have decided that the 15” gun was good* but the quad turrets were not such a good idea. (* there was also reluctance to add another weapon to its armoury with the additional support and stores this would have caused).
Montana: Yes
Super Yamato: Yes
Lion: Yes
H/O/P series: No
Soviet designs: No
Up-40: No
Alsace: No
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Nice to see Warship Projects referenced by Smurf. I still miss the group there, and the destruction of information was tragic.

As Hoo-2b-2day mentions, the 40,000 ton design was the most likely to be built. Warship Projects member bgire did some excellent work on them (he is a friend of Robert Dumas). The designs leading up to Richeleiu and the Alsace concepts can be see here:

The german ships are unlikely except if paid commissions, the designs are too mixed up with and lacks english sources I can read.
Soviet designs in the future likely. UP-40 likely. Alsace, not sure maybe.
Richelieu - up and running
Jean Bart - completed
Clemenceau - a bit of hull wrecked by allied bombers late 1944
Gascogne - paper only
Alsace-class - 2* paper only
Richelieu - up and running
Jean Bart - completed
Clemenceau - a bit of hull wrecked by allied bombers late 1944
Gascogne - paper only
Alsace-class - 2* paper only
Clemenceau's " bit of hull" amounted to some 3,600 tonnes or 10% of the hull. It was floated out of the building dock at Brest in 1941 and finally bombed 27 Aug 1944.

Gascoyne got a bit further than just paper.

Armour & guns were ordered for her in June 1939. Work then stopped on 28 Sept 1939, and restarted on 12 April 1940. By 1 June 1940 some 6% of the construction materials had been supplied and it was planned to lay her down at St Nazaire in summer 1940 for launch in spring 1942 and completion in June 1944.

Authorisation for the construction of 2 Alsace class was given on 1 April 1940.

All from Jordan & Dumas "French Battleships 1922-1956".
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