Ultimate British Paper Deterrent

[uk 75]

Inspired by the reappearance of Archibald's wonderful B70 Valkyrie comments I found this post and image by Blackkite of not just one but three RAF never-were bombers.

Avro 730 came close to becoming metal. VC10 Poffler did even if the VC10 never met a Skybolt they both flew. Finally the Bombcorde which was the furthest from reality.

The Dambusters have a lot to answer for. Anyone of my age (68) cannot look at a British bomber without hearing the music from the film.

No RAF officer worthy of his blue uniform can look at a Polaris submarine withour muttering dark thoughts about 1962.

So in a world where missiles unaccountably failed to deliver in the 50s and 60s (bolshy German boffins?) the bomber stayed king and we got Avro 730 and Bombcorde.

Meanwhile my caregivers have stopped me trying to add Skybolts to a BOAC VC10. After all Better Off on A Camel was a state airline!

 

[Scott Kenny]

As to how this timeline comes about, I'd say it just takes Polaris being a hard enough problem to solve that the first SSBNs don't go out to sea until 1968. 5 year time slip. Say they're having issues with the backsplash going up the 1st stage, like what happened to Trident 2, but a lot more severe.

This means that the USN makes a lot more Regulus boats, and probably fits Regulus to many surface ships as well.

 

[Archibald]

I really, really like the English Electric P.10.

 

[Yellow Palace]

FWIW, my ideal, money-no-object (say the UK discovered an unobtanium mine on Crown land when the entirety of HM Treasury inexplicably fell down it) deterrent has, circa 1970:

• A strategic reconnaissance force of 2-4 squadrons of Avro 730s, and one squadron of V-1000s in the ELINT role.
• A medium bomber force of 240 Vulcans, half with standoff weapons, the other half penetrating bombers with decoys, ECM and high-yield gravity bombs.
• A UK-based strategic light bomber force of ~100 TSR-2s carrying a lightweight thermonuclear weapon (i.e. WE.177B), in addition to overseas-based tactical-roled TSR-2s.
• Nine nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines carrying a UK-developed equivalent to Polaris, and supported by V-1000s in the TACAMO role.
• No operational IRBMs, due to a lack of acceptable launcher locations, but an operational satellite launching capability developed from Blue Streak.

Selling this to HM Government would be about as easy as convincing my wife that we should take a world cruise with Margot Robbie for company.

 

[Hood]

Paper is a good deterrent, an SIS agent could sneak in and give the Soviet Premier some nasty paper cuts, that would be bound to stop them launching an attack on the West.

 

[Archibald]

FWIW, my ideal, money-no-object (say the UK discovered an unobtanium mine on Crown land when the entirety of HM Treasury inexplicably fell down it) deterrent has, circa 1970:

• A strategic reconnaissance force of 2-4 squadrons of Avro 730s, and one squadron of V-1000s in the ELINT role.
• A medium bomber force of 240 Vulcans, half with standoff weapons, the other half penetrating bombers with decoys, ECM and high-yield gravity bombs.
• A UK-based strategic light bomber force of ~100 TSR-2s carrying a lightweight thermonuclear weapon (i.e. WE.177B), in addition to overseas-based tactical-roled TSR-2s.
• Nine nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines carrying a UK-developed equivalent to Polaris, and supported by V-1000s in the TACAMO role.
• No operational IRBMs, due to a lack of acceptable launcher locations, but an operational satellite launching capability developed from Blue Streak.

Selling this to HM Government would be about as easy as convincing my wife that we should take a world cruise with Margot Robbie for company.

Well, maybe Nord Sea oil could pay for all this ? (screw Norway, Great Britain gets a monopoly there).

 

[Yellow Palace]

Paper is a good deterrent, an SIS agent could sneak in and give the Soviet Premier some nasty paper cuts, that would be bound to stop them launching an attack on the West.

Operate on the minefield principle - you don't actually need any mines, just a press release!

Some believe that's what the UK deterrent does anyway...

 

[Charlesferdinand]

Operate on the minefield principle - you don't actually need any mines, just a press release!

Some believe that's what the UK deterrent does anyway...

Sir Humphrey couldn't agree more

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neIMa5mODlo

 

[Siberia]

• A strategic reconnaissance force of 2-4 squadrons of Avro 730s…

The Avro 730 is often popular – it and the SR-71 are fast good looking aircraft – but how much use would you get out of it? Sure you can use them elsewhere but as far as I'm aware the SR-71 was never used over the USSR. In an unlimited budget scenario my money would be on optical and electronic reconnaissance satellites.

Paper is a good deterrent, an SIS agent could sneak in and give the Soviet Premier some nasty paper cuts, that would be bound to stop them launching an attack on the West.

Reminds me of the paragraph from Charles Stross' novelette A Colder War

Most people think spies are afraid of guns, or KGB guards, or barbed wire, but in point of fact the most dangerous thing they face is paper. Papers carry secrets. Papers can carry death warrants. Papers like this one, this folio with its blurry eighteen year old faked missile photographs and estimates of time/survivor curves and pervasive psychosis ratios, can give you nightmares, dragging you awake screaming in the middle of the night.

 

[Scott Kenny]

The Avro 730 is often popular – it and the SR-71 are fast good looking aircraft – but how much use would you get out of it? Sure you can use them elsewhere but as far as I'm aware the SR-71 was never used over the USSR. In an unlimited budget scenario my money would be on optical and electronic reconnaissance satellites.

Recon Satellites go overhead at well known times, usually close to noon each day.

Things like the Blackbird can go whenever and leave little warning for workers to get things under cover. And yes, the Blackbirds can see a long way into the country without crossing the border. (Breaching the ADIZ is annoying, but not an act of war. Both sides did that, and still do that all the time. Breaching the actual border is bad, Act of War bad.)

 

[Yellow Palace]

The Avro 730 is often popular – it and the SR-71 are fast good looking aircraft – but how much use would you get out of it? Sure you can use them elsewhere but as far as I'm aware the SR-71 was never used over the USSR. In an unlimited budget scenario my money would be on optical and electronic reconnaissance satellites.

The RAF got good use out of the Victor SR.2 and Canberra PR.9; a faster, higher-flying reconnaissance aircraft is definitely a luxury, but one that would be useful. AFAIK the original Red Drover was to have a much longer baseline (i.e. longer range or greater resolution) than the SR-71's SLAR, which might also make it a niche capability the UK can bring to the table with the US. I'm not aware of any specific proposals for the aircraft to carry cameras or ELINT equipment, but I'm sure that would have been developed as required.

Such a system is complimentary to space assets, as Scott notes. They'd be present as well in an unlimited-budget scenario too - put in place by a UK sovereign orbital launch system, of course.

Breaching the actual border is bad, Act of War bad.

Well, navigation errors happen. And at Mach 2.5 (or Mach 3.2), you can get quite a long way before the error is identified and corrected. Not that anyone would do such a thing on purpose of course. Perish the thought.