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U.S. Marine Corps Ground-based Terrier

RyanCrierie

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I believe these are the first photos EVER describing how Ground Based Terrier looked.

Usually, this is mentioned as a single sentence in most books on Terrier; the fact that the USMC briefly operated a terrier battalion.
 

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Firefly 2

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Unknown to me! What a gem, thank you.

Query: In operational use these systems towed into their positions by tractors ( incidentally, it appears from the above brochure that both the launcher and radar were tracted by the same vehicle)? Was there some kind of resupply vehicle?
 

Barrington Bond

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It's from the back of a magazine not a brochure pic - so I have no further information.

Regards,
Barry
 

Silencer1

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Hi!

Thank you for nice pictures! Definitely, the period's type photo - brigt sky, superweapons and brave Marine :cool:

I found small description in the consice volume "U.S. Military Wheeled Vehicles" (by Crimson).


Cheers!
 

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mistedupagain

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Good afternoon,
Very interesting pictures of a system little known.
Looking at the pictures i am fairly sure that picture number 4 is the actual mobile system.
This I think uses the lower section of the 120mm M1 anti aircraft gun as the mobile section.
Picture number 8 shows a static mount which was either (A) part of the test unit or part of the Marine Corps fixed site.

A web site called HNSA has a number of interesting trailers associated with earlier Terrier missile under its missile section X1 to X8 missiles. I do not know if they are associated with the land or ship use.

Does any one have more info on the Land Based System?
 

Pioneer

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Wow, I hate to be cynical - But if these picture and info are correct then these Terrier TEL vehicles are proof that the United States military are able to produce basic, simple and non over engineered military hardware!
I am a little confused - for looking at the Convair brochure 'what I thought' was the TEL, appears to be on the gradient so as to load the missiles onto the actual mobile launcher, behind the tractor?

Regards
Pioneer
 

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Howedar

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I do love the idyllic fifties, when driving through the bush with open-air missiles seemed like a peachy idea, thank you very much. I wouldn't like to expose a Terrier to highway-thrown gravel, let alone actually take it in the field.
 

Barrington Bond

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I don't think it is trying to load on a gradient. It is merely en route to the already setup one in the distance.

Regards,
Barry
 

Hank

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LAND-BASED TERRIER U.S. ARMY AND U.S. MARINE CORP BACKGROUND
Compiled by Hank Morris
February 2010

1. In the nearly 60 years since efforts to develop a mobile land-launched version of the Navy TERRIER, initially for the U.S. Army and subsequently for the U.S. Marine Corp when it was dropped by the Army, much history has been lost. I don’t have all of the pieces, but I was involved in the missile aspect of both programs. Perhaps other participants in the programs will recognize the “clues” and will be able to contribute to a more accurate history.

I was employed by General Dynamics, Pomona Division (initially starting at CONVAIR San Diego where Terrier was under development and just entering limited production at missile Serial Number 41. I was with the company from late 1951 until 1962. For three years after leaving General Dynamics, I was West Coast Manager for Belock Instrument Corporation, a major supplier of shipboard fire control systems and missile components. Thereafter, I served with the Naval Ship Missile Systems Engineering Station (later to become Naval Surface Warfare Center, Port Hueneme Division).

A brief mention of Land Based Terrier is following excerpt from a history of the Army’s Redstone Arsenal is a small part of the story. It is available at:


Redstone Arsenal Complex Chronology: The Redstone Arsenal Era, 1950-55
Part II
1 July 52 The OCO (Office of the Chief of Ordnance) assigned Redstone Arsenal responsibility for research and development of the TERRIER, a Navy-developed antiaircraft guided missile. The Army planned to used the TERRIER as an interim weapon until the NIKE I (AJAX) became operational.
After NIKE development bypassed the development of a suitable ground control system for this ship-launched missile, Ordnance transferred its TERRIER ground equipment to the Marine Corp.
2. The Army’s application was for the air defense of the Hanford Atomic Works. The use of the U.S. Navy’s TERRIER, at the time not yet operational in the Navy, was an interim to the availability of the NIKE-AJAX. The development effort was carried out by RCA Moorestown NJ and General Dynamics, Pomona Division, Pomona CA.
There are some major differences between the manner in which NIKE-AJAX (and its “big brother”, NIKE-HERCULES) are employed and I believe this aspect may have had some influence on the Army’s technical decision to abandon TERRIER for a land based air defense application. Specifically, TERRIER is launched in the direction and elevation angle of the target and when it solid rocket booster is expended it falls in that direction; it’s a bit more complex than that, but for the sake of comparison, it’s accurate enough. For its normal at-sea application, where the booster falls is of little concern …so long as it’s not on a friendly ship! By contrast, the NIKE-family is launched near vertical and performs a maneuver to result in its booster separating and falling into a pre-planned “booster dump” area, then continuing under its ground-based guidance system.
3. The following is quoted from “RINGS OF SUPERSONIC STEEL, Air Defense of the United States Army 1950 – 1979”, Second Edition 2002, by Mark L. Morgan and Mark A. Berhow.
During the mid-1950s, the Army participated in the development of the Navy’s Terrier (SAM-N-7/RIM-2) shipboard air defense missile system, to the extent of ordering twenty-five for test purposes. In 1952, ARADCOM (Army Air Defense Command) proposed the deployment of two battalions of ground-based Terriers as a defense of the Hanford Atomic Works.
The solid-fueled Terrier was slightly over twenty-seven feet long and was equipped with a 218 lb HE warhead (later versions had nuclear warheads). The missile had a maximum speed of mach 1.8, range of twelve nautical miles, and a maximum effective altitude of 40,000 feet. The system employed beam-riding guidance; the missile flew up the center of the tracking radar’s signal, using minor course corrections to remain within the beam.
The first evaluation missile was test fired from the Naval Ordnance Test Station, Inyokern, CA, on 15 February 1950. The first successful shipboard launch was accomplished in September 1951; in May 1952 Terriers successfully shot down two F6F-5D Hellcat drones. Operational Evaluation commenced in July 1954.
However, by that time the commanding general of ARADCOM had second thoughts about Terrier and, 25 April 1953, declared that the system would not be acquired by the Army. The official reason given was poor test results. The U.S. Marine Corps did acquire the ground based Terrier system and operated two battalions of the missile from 1954 through 1960.
4. From a China Lake Alumni website http://www.chinalakealumni.org/NOTS.htm “On 1 May 1956 the Marine Corps Guided Missile Test Unit (MCGMTU) consisting of six officers and 45 men was established at China Lake.” One of the USMC Commanding Officers of the MCGMTU, Bruce A. Rushlow, was later an engineer with the Applied Physics Laboratory, Johns Hopkins University. He retired from the USMC as a Colonel. The writer, while employed by the Navy, worked with Mr. Rushlow for many years. Regrettably, the writer never had in-depth discussions with Mr. Rushlow regarding USMC Terrier. Mr. Rushlow retired, later succumbing of Alzheimer’s.
5. Another reference to the land-based Terrier is “The Illustrated Encyclopedia of the World’s Rockets and Missiles” by Bill Gunston. It does not mention the Army application, but has a brief mention of the USMC program on page 200, including a picture of the launcher (mounted to the ground) and mobile side-loader at Naval Ordnance Test Station China Lake dated 1957. As a side note on the mobile side loader, one went on to see service at White Sands Missile Range in support of STANDARD Missile firings from a Terrier MK 5 Launcher.
6. Regarding the ground-mounted launcher at China Lake, that was an atypical use of the launcher. There was never a USMC deployment of any but the wheeled launcher. Following the USMC’s termination of their program, some of the wheeled launchers found their way to Point Mugu. A pair with inert Terrier missiles flanked the main entrance of the Headquarters Building of the Naval Ship Missile Systems Engineering Station, Port Hueneme. The tires went flat and eventually the launchers were removed from the carriages and were mounted on concrete pads. They have long since been removed and there is no record regarding their disposal.
During April 2006 the writer was contacted by a former Deputy Commander of Point Mugu regarding identifying a wheeled launcher found in a warehouse; they wanted to scrap it. It was one of the USMC launchers, although painted white. The tires were flat and much of the launcher and its carriage were badly damaged by rust. Internal compartments were cluttered with bird nests and spider webs. In short, it was beyond salvage for a historical display and the decision was made to scrap it.

Over the years the launcher had been used on various projects. At one time it was used for Terrier launches from the beach at Point Mugu, including for a public air show during which there were launches against targets such as drone F6Fs. My recollection is that the Terrier launches were conducted by a Navy crew from China Lake. Incidentally, those personnel were originally from the USS MISSISSIPPI (EAG-128), as part of the crew involved with Terrier testing. Following their China Lake duty, they were reassigned to USS NORTON SOUND (AVM-1).

When I figure out how to insert images, I'll send along a few 1024 x 768 color images of the launcher at Point Mugu on 28 April 2006!!

7. I may be contacted at morris@jetlink.net.
 

Hank

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The pictures of a Terrier launcher at China Lake are not of the mobile launcher emplyed by the USMC, but are the same as the pair of launchers aboard USS MISSISSIPPI (EAG-128). A single launcher aboard USS NORTON SOUND (AVM-1) was the same type; it was later replaced with the Terrier MK 5 launcher as used on all Terrier combatant ships.

See http://usmchawkassociation.com/history_videos for a video shot aboard USS MISSISSIPPI.

I'm a newby on this site and have yet learned how to post a photo. When I click on the "Inser Image" icon, I am clueless as to how to insert an image between the
bracketed items. I can copy an image from my file, but can't seem to stick it between the brackets. HELP!!

Hank Morris
 

Howedar

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I think there might be a minimum-posts limitation (5, probably) as an anti-troll measure. It's not uncommon in these circles.
 

Hank

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USS MISSISSIPPI (EAG 128) definitely did not employ the same magazine arrangement as was used aboard USS BOSTON (CAG-1) and USS CANBERRA (CAG-2). Missiles were fed to MISSISSIPP's launcher horizontally, whereas they were vertically-fed to the MK 5 MOD 0 launchers of BOSTON and CANBERRA.

I should like to interject at this point that the Terrier launchers used by the Marine Corp at China Lake were definitely NOT the same as the launchers used by the Marine Corp Terrier System. In fact, the launchers in the pictures at China Lake are the same as those used aboard MISSISSIPPI and initially aboard USS NORTON SOUND (AVM-1). The NORTON SOUND Terrier launcher of that type was removed and replaced with a Terrier MK 5 launcher.

You are correct about the MK 10 (several MODs) aboard Terrier ships, but another variant was Guided Missile Launching System MK 9 aboard USS PROVIDENCE (CLG-6)-class of three ships. The MK 9 employed horizontal trays, essentiall the same as was used by TALOS-equipped ships. A very abbrevaited version of the tray concept was also used aboard USS GYATT (DDG-1).

Sincerely,

Hank Morris


Respectfully,

Hank Morris
 

Hank

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The white rusted derlict is the USMC Terrier Launcher. The last picture taken at what was the Navals Ship Missile Systems Engineering Station, Port Hueneme CA is not the USMC Terrier launcher, but it is the same as the one depicted in earlier postings at China Lake. The differences are obvious. Any questions?

Hank
 

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Hank

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The pictures are not of the USMC Terrier Launcher, but are of another version. It was used as a fixed launcher at China Lake. Attached are pictures of the actual USMC Terrier Launcher, both on its carriage and mounted to a concrete base at Port Hueneme CA.
 

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RyanCrierie

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Hank said:
Try again with posting picture!!! Here is the carriage-mounted USMC Terrier launcher.
Is this the one that was scrapped? If so, I want to beat the person who authorized it's scrapping with a shovel. The stuff at Aberdeen is in WORSE shape than that, and they restore them.
 

Hank

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The BOSTON / CANBERRA Guided Missile Launching System is MK 4. The Guided Missile Launcher ...the part you see topside... is MK 5. That designation holds true for every shipboard TERRIER Launching System with a number of MODs. The MK 5 MOD 0 of BOSTON and CANBERRA differs primarily in the height of its Stand. The MOD 0's Stand is taller to allow the guide arms to be positioned at 90 degrees to receive missiles from the vertical Ready Service Ring Magazine. All other TERRIER ships receive their missiles horizontally, or near-horizontally, from the Ready Service Rings.

Exclusive of my time with General Dynamics, over 35 years was spent working for the US Navy with missiles and launching systems being my primary area. My primary expertise hapens to be missiles, but I was part of an interface management group (industry and military) involved with launchin systems. As such, the Guided Missile Launching Systems I was involved with were the TERRIER MK 10, TARTAR MK 11, 13 and 22, plus adaptations of ASROC Launchers on FF-1052 Class Fast Frigates to accomodate the Medium Range Standard Missile, a "coffin-style" launching system aboard ASHEVILLE-class Patrol Gun Boats, PGs 86, 87, 98 & 100, to accomodate Medium RAnge Standard Missile, plus a similar system for Taiwan gunboats of similar characteristics. The system was also fitted to three Iranian vessels, two of which were ex-USN DDs and one ex-British Frigate. I was also assigned to the source Selection Evaluation Board for the Vertical Launch System, MK 41.

Hope that sets things straight.

Sincerely

Hank Morris
 

Hank

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The rusted white USMC Terrier Launcher was at Point Mugu. I only provided the information to verify that the launcher had been the one used by the USMC. We at the Naval Ship Missile Systems Engineering Station never provided any support to the USMC Terrier Program and the carcass was technically not a part of our history. I did recommend to my POC at Point Mugu that they check with the USMC at Twenty Nine Palms to ascertain if they had any interest in it. I've since learned that one is on display at that base, but it is demounted. I've seen a photo of it, but have misplaced the source.

While you are about beating the guilty with a shovel, spend some energy on finding element of the rest of the USMC Terrier System, including the radar stuff, etc.

Sincerely

Hank Morris
 

Hank

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For a picture of an actual off-carriage USMC Terrier Launcher, see:


Page 39 of the book preview shows the launcher. Presumably it is still at USMC Twentynine Palms. Note carefully the bolt pattern surrounding the trunnion axis. You will not see that on the China Lake launcher. It is exactly the same as the white launcher at Point Mugu.

Hank Morris
 

Hank

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The attached shot is a better view of the USMC Terrier Launcher, of which two were posted infront of the Headquarters Bldg at Naval Ship Missile Systems Engineering Station, Port Hueneme, CA. Originally both were on wheeled carriages, but when the tires went flat, the launchers were removed from the carriages and were bolted to concrete pads. Checking against the pictures at China Lake, you will see that those launchers were not the ones actually used by the USMC. The launcher in the attached picture is the same as the white derlict of a USMC Terrier Launcher at Point Mugu for which I previously provided pictures.

Sincerely,

Hank Morris
morris@jetlink.net
 

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goldfastback

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I trained as a Guided Missile Fire Control Repairman in 1956 & was stationed at 29 Palms 1957-58 in the 1st MAAM Bn, A Batt under Col Norris. We participated in several live firing exercises including China Lake and Pt Mugu. Also, in Aug of 1958 my Battery was part of the Commissioning Exercises for the "Naval Missile Facility" Pt Arguello. We spent the month of Aug 58 at Surf just outside of LOMPOC, CA. While there we successfully fired and destroyed a target drone. A short time later this location,formerly called Cook Army Base, became Vandenberg AFB.
If memory serves the system was the AN-MSG-3, which included an Acquisition Radar, Tracking Radar, and Capture & Guidance Radar. There was also an Analog Computer Van that calculated the angle for capturing the missile after launch into the guidance beam. We were considered mobile, able to relocate and be ready to fire in 24 hours.
 

MissileMarine

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I also trained as a "Guided Missile Fire Control Technician (Terrier)", attending the last class in San Diego. At 29 Palms I was assigned to the computer on the AN/MSG-3A in D Battery, 1st MAAM Bn. We fired at Pt Mugu and Pt Huenneme and, one time, at 29 Palms. We were all transferred to Hawk units and by late 1961 1st MAAM ceased to exist.

I still maintain contact with a few of the old hands, mostly Hawk but a handful of Terrier. In all our conversations, I don't think any of us realized there was an "Army" history. We all just assumed (a dangerous thing to do) that the Marine Corps needed to use a Navy missile and made a lot of compromises to do so. We just believed the similarities between the Army Nike guidence equipment (MSG-1, 2, and 4) was because it was all based upon the M51 Skysweeper design -- or, because the contractor for all was Western Electric.

I look forward to sharing the information posted here with some of my old cohorts, especially the information available from Redstone. We were a small group (Marine missilemen) within a small group (Marines) and often feel that part of what we did was a dream, since so few histories even mention it.

I went on to a career as a field engineer working with the Army in Viet Nam, the Air Force in the Arctic, and telecommunications companies in the U.S. I retired from the MCI Engineering Labs in Richardson, Texas and live at Lake Texoma.
 

jerald1939

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USMC Land Base Terrier Missle

I served in the Marine Corps (1957-1959). I was in the 1st Medium Anti-aircraft Missle Battalion @ Twentynine Palms, CA. We worked with the land base Terrier Missile System. I would like to get any pictures of the Terrier Missiles that you may have in your possession.

Jerald
leewelch@@bellsouth.net
 

Petrus

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Here you've got some photos of the Terrier SAM in service with the USMC:

A missile being fired at Twentynine Palms, Ca.
An M8 Tracked Cargo Vehicle
TMC (Twin Missile Carrier)
Missiles being loaded on a launcher
Terrier Missile Launcher

Piotr
 

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Silencer1

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Although cargo aircraft on the background could be "artist impression" they have some common with Stroukoff MS-8-3 project.
Of course, swept fin has been "jet age" mark
 

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If you follow the link in Grey Havoc's reply, it takes you to a thread about the Douglas Model 1906 which features the same image. It is an artist's impression all right - of the 1906.
 

Silencer1

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If you follow the link in Grey Havoc's reply, it takes you to a thread about the Douglas Model 1906 which features the same image. It is an artist's impression all right - of the 1906.
Thank you, Arjen!
I missed the link in Grey Havoc's post. Of course, this aircraft is Douglas' project - and I see it already. But couldn't remember where :cool: Now I found, what I'm looking for.
 
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