Typhoon for Ukraine?

F-16 would be great. Even better if they are handed over by US aggressor companies that have an interesting fleet of upgraded aircraft. I have written this a year ago, but going that way prevent any risks involving a state sale. It would that way be only a private sale with no diplomatic consequences.

Typhoons however would handle better in front of fast accelerating, perching like loiter capability of the Flanker. The reported problem of not being able to fly at low alt is surprisingly ridiculous. Ukraine air force needs modern jet not to do what they have been forced to do until now, but to break the paradigm of a static front line with resident IADS.

Typhoon have the avionics, the high altitude, range and acceleration to outflank and bypass Russian defence. They have cruise missiles and antiship weaponry that would be very useful to extend Ukrainian reach considerably. Being maintenance intensive, there will be not much risks of exacerbating the status quo. In a week or two after a loss of approval following, let's say, a Yamamoto raid for example, Ukraine would not be able to operate them anymore.

I hope that everyone critical of my Macron's Aircraft bazaar thread on Keypub now understand what a strange and questionable delirium it was to sell for cheap a strategic reserve... It could have been 100 upgraded Mirage F-1 sent to Ukraine months ago.
 
Last edited:
TomcatViP said:
It could have been 100 upgraded Mirage F-1 sent to Ukraine months ago.
Click to expand...
Upgraded by whom? With what equipment?

There are no upgraded Mirage F-1s anywhere aside from the few Moroccan examples over a decade ago. There has been lots of *talk* of upgraded Mirage F1s, but sadly no users have done it, not even the Red Air companies. They are for profit businesses and nothing is stopping them from upgrading their F1s and selling/leasing them on to Ukraine.
 
Most F-1 that ultimately went to aggressor contractors have been upgraded with new radar systems and avionics.
 
Last edited:
TomcatViP said:
Typhoon have the avionics, the high altitude, range and acceleration to outflank and bypass Russian defence. They have cruise missiles and antiship weaponry that would be very useful to extend Ukrainian reach considerably.
Click to expand...
If they can get their hands on later tranche yeah but that's pretty unlikely given that UK has pretty limited number of aircraft.
 
Yes, but you have to take the clever path in this situation: Typhoon MkI would have to be upgraded ECM wise with "platform agnostic" pods. I am looking at the late Gripen ECM marketed one.

The EAJP is a strong complement to the built-in electronic attack capabilities of the highly advanced on-board electronic warfare system on Saab’s new Gripen E/F fighter. It can also be used on other aircraft types. The pod forms part of Saab’s Arexis family of electronic warfare systems.
Click to expand...

www.saab.com

Saab’s New Electronic Attack Jammer Pod in the Air

Saab carried out the first flight tests with its new advanced Electronic Attack Jammer Pod (EAJP) with successful results on 4 November 2019. The pod’s interfaces with the aircraft’s hardware and software as well as cockpit control and monitoring were tested during the flight.
www.saab.com www.saab.com
 
TomcatViP said:
Most F-1 that ultimately went to aggressor contractors have been upgraded with new radar systems and avionics
Click to expand...
My understanding is that these upgrades have not happened... the idea was floated 5 years ago but no news since.
 
H_K said:
TomcatViP said:
It could have been 100 upgraded Mirage F-1 sent to Ukraine months ago.
Click to expand...
Upgraded by whom? With what equipment?

There are no upgraded Mirage F-1s anywhere aside from the few Moroccan examples over a decade ago. There has been lots of *talk* of upgraded Mirage F1s, but sadly no users have done it, not even the Red Air companies. They are for profit businesses and nothing is stopping them from upgrading their F1s and selling/leasing them on to Ukraine.
Click to expand...
Spain made significant avionic upgrades to their F1's - dubbed the F1M. The contractors bought them after retirement so yes, the contractors fly upgraded F1s.

But F1's are not the type Ukraine requires, even if we have lots of them to give. More Mig 29's would be a far better option than an F1! If they want to transfer Western Fighters to them, make it something useful on the modern battlefield.
 
Last edited:
If the Italians would not be plagued by pro-Putin leftist parties (unfortunately more than one) that drive the public discussion, we could and would provide the AMX latest batch. An honest close support fighter...
 
There are limits to how many short-term cast-offs can be handed over to Ukraine.
If you are going to go through the time, effort and cost re: re-equipping the Ukrainian airforce with Western aircraft it needs to (1) be at least medium term re: usage/ supportability and (2) actually represent an improvement to what they currently have, and (3) actually be available.

Suggestions of Mirage F1s and the like don’t appear to pass most of these points.
Tranch 1 Typhoons probably pass at lest point (2) put given likely needs for time consuming updates re: avionics and ECM before being thrown into an actual war even that is debatable and throws real doubt over (1) and (3), and both those aspects would already be potentially dubious.

As far as I am aware there is no ready supply of “full” spec or even near-full spec Typhoons that are available for supply to Ukraine. And even more than for MBTs it would be a mistake to try to force small numbers of different aircraft (potentially with sub-standard equipment) onto Ukraine.
 
The problem with Typhoon is that UK, Germany, Italy and Spain cannot deliver large number (any number) of the current batch without degrading or depleting their defensive capabilities.
 
Regarding the F-1, wouldn't anyone think that 100 F-1 rapidly made available would not have been a game changer?
A large contingent of Ukrainian pilots would have gained combat experience.
Yes the airplane can be tricky to fly, sluggish when you try to outrun a Flanker etc... But 100 of them would have tipped the scale on more favorable terms.
 
TomcatViP said:
Regarding the F-1, wouldn't anyone think that 100 F-1 rapidly made available would not have been a game changer?
Click to expand...
Half of them aren’t flyable so the number is really 50 (~30 French and ~20 Spanish). None of which have any BVR missile capability or modern radars so for A2A they are useless without significant upgrades.

Limited precision strike capability - they can serve as a bomb truck for laser guided bombs but these have to be guided by a drone or a JTAC on the ground. The 21 Spanish Mirages can also launch GPS guided bombs… but overall nothing that any other aircraft couldn’t do.

If a Mirage is needed the M2000C is a better bet and several dozen could be available from French and Greek stocks. But there are many more surplus F-16As available, with much better A2A and A2G capability. All that’s missing is the will to give them.
 
Last edited:
So from this, are we to assume that the Ukrainians still have usable runways? That rather surprises me; I would've imagined that the Russians would know exactly where they were and would've thoroughly bombed them...?
 
shedofdread said:
So from this, are we to assume that the Ukrainians still have usable runways? That rather surprises me; I would've imagined that the Russians would know exactly where they were and would've thoroughly bombed them...?
Click to expand...

I expect they will have at various times, but experience from previous conflicts has shown runways to be notoriously difficult to take out of commission permanently. Repairs are apparently pretty quick and straightforward. It bears mentioning too, that we are talking about the second largest country in Europe here - that's a lot of terrain to cover.
 
Last edited:
TomcatViP said:
F-16 would be great. Even better if they are handed over by US aggressor companies that have an interesting fleet of upgraded aircraft. I have written this a year ago, but going that way prevent any risks involving a state sale. It would that way be only a private sale with no diplomatic consequences.
Click to expand...
Such a transfer would have exactly the same consequences as a state-to-state sale, because it would require a US export license.
 
Folks, though here's the word in the title, that inevitably starts Pavlovian reactions here,
posts here should still have some reference to the original title !
And discussing, if the Eurofighter EF 2000 Typhoon would really be a feasibility for Ukraine,
technically and with regards to serviceability, already is a theme that can bring enough topics,
I think. ;)
 
TomcatViP said:
Typhoon have the avionics, the high altitude, range and acceleration to outflank and bypass Russian defence.
Click to expand...
Does it?

shedofdread said:
So from this, are we to assume that the Ukrainians still have usable runways? That rather surprises me; I would've imagined that the Russians would know exactly where they were and would've thoroughly bombed them...?
Click to expand...
Runways are repairable. The longer the conflict, the more repairable.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom