Type 31 and Variants - NEWS

[Stellerfella]

There isn't a pennant number on either side of the ship in the images available.

It says AH140

 

[Reuben James]

It says AH140

No, it's blank. This is the design that I was suggesting might be AH160 - if you look down the message chain, me and another commentor eventually realised that it wasn't stretched, and was just the basic AH140.

 

[Stellerfella]

View attachment 822548
No, it's blank.

There is on the second image of your post I first replied to. But you are right that there's nothing in the physical model from DALO

 

[Titus K]

AH140 for Denmark. Lots of hybrid navy talk, not much on the actual frigate.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzvMyLPUMxA

 

[Reuben James]

AH140 for Denmark. Lots of hybrid navy talk, not much on the actual frigate.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzvMyLPUMxA

As for '31 Type 31s by 2031', Sir Hine is living in delusion. Assuming the AH140 wins every programme it is involved in, that'd still only be 21 (2 for NZ, 3 for Denmark, 4-5 for Chile, 11 for the UK). Not only is that a big assumption, it's still not enough to reach the target.

Edit - NN did comment below the video about the SPY-6/AH140, saying:

'It was a Arrowhead 140 with an American radar (SPY-6) but they didn't wish to discuss it in detail, calling it a generic model showing how AH140 is systems agnostic.'

So, not what's being offered to Denmark. Seems like they're really believing that the Danes will buy into a completely unproven air defence concept, that lacks the backstop of a capable shipboard radar. Just rolling out the carpet for Naval Group, I guess.

 

[H_K]

So, not what's being offered to Denmark. Seems like they're really believing that the Danes will buy into a completely unproven air defence concept, that lacks the backstop of a capable shipboard radar. Just rolling out the carpet for Naval Group, I guess.

Plenty of capable European radar options out there.

• SM400 (Thales NL) as on the Polish variant
• Seafire (Thales FR) as on Singapore's related MRCV variant
• Sea Giraffe 4A (Saab) as on Finland's Pohjanmaa class

Saab supplies the modular mast for both MRCV and Pojhanmaa and they've made noises about participating in a Danish build, so I wouldn't be surprised if one option on offer is a Saab modular mast with either Seafire or Sea Giraffe 4A. Seafire might have the edge as it's already integrated with Aster 30, however Denmark also needs a new CMS and may be interested in a single vendor package which might then be either Saab (9LV CMS + Sea Giraffe 4A) or Thales NL (Tacticos CMS + SM400).

 

[Stellerfella]

So, not what's being offered to Denmark. Seems like they're really believing that the Danes will buy into a completely unproven air defence concept, that lacks the backstop of a capable shipboard radar. Just rolling out the carpet for Naval Group, I guess.

I think you're reading that wrong. Denmark hasn't detailed what they want for their next frigates, and still tossing up what to do with the IVs. Babcock is just showing them that their platform has the flexibility to choose different systems to suit their requirements without having to buy into unfamiliar systems ... Like FDI.

Not sure how Denmark will feel about buying American now though.

 

[zen]

If Denmark specifies radar, silo system, cms etc naval primes will draw up proposals and cost them.

The ball really is in Copenhagen's court here.

But they may, like others be thinking of the strategic relationship such a ship encompasses.

Each of the majority European states has it's positives and minuses for such relationships.

Germany....
Not a great option considering how things have progressed.
And that's tainted the Dutch.

France has won over Sweden and that might actually count as a minus for the Danes.

UK won over Norway and that might be a minus, but I'd suspect it's the slow delivery pace that has them more worried.
Poland's involvement might be a plus here. But thus means it's the Polish side that needs to get involved to win the Danes over.

Spain has too much US content and Italy might be the real contender....

 

[Stellerfella]

Germany....
Not a great option considering how things have progressed.
And that's tainted the Dutch.

It's obvious now that wasn't really Germany's fault but it did become their problem. The Dutch -Damen more specifically- should be viewed with great caution; they can't seem to deliver on their programmes. Germany might be good for sourcing parts from, like a radar.

UK won over Norway and that might be a minus, but I'd suspect it's the slow delivery pace that has them more worried.

Plenty of capacity at Rosyth though. And really that's where they'd be looking to buy from.

 

[Reuben James]

I think you're reading that wrong. Denmark hasn't detailed what they want for their next frigates, and still tossing up what to do with the IVs. Babcock is just showing them that their platform has the flexibility to choose different systems to suit their requirements without having to buy into unfamiliar systems ... Like FDI.

Not sure how Denmark will feel about buying American now though.

I don't know, Hine seemed pretty clear that they're pushing the hybrid approach on Denmark.

 

[DWG]

As for '31 Type 31s by 2031', Sir Hine is living in delusion. Assuming the AH140 wins every programme it is involved in, that'd still only be 21 (2 for NZ, 3 for Denmark, 4-5 for Chile, 11 for the UK). Not only is that a big assumption, it's still not enough to reach the target.

You're missing the 4 Indonesian Balaputradewas and the 3 plus 5 options for the Polish Wichers.

(And being pedantic, it's Sir Nick, not Sir Hine, Sir/Dame always goes with the first name, not surname.)

 

[DWG]

It's obvious now that wasn't really Germany's fault but it did become their problem. The Dutch -Damen more specifically- should be viewed with great caution; they can't seem to deliver on their programmes.

What we know of the issues suggests it was specific to the collaboration. Still Damen's fault for not sorting out the data sharing issues, but not something that would necessarily affect a Damen-only build.

 

[Reuben James]

You're missing the 4 Indonesian Balaputradewas and the 3 plus 5 options for the Polish Wichers.

(And being pedantic, it's Sir Nick, not Sir Hine, Sir/Dame always goes with the first name, not surname.)

Good point, I'd completely forgotten those. Hey, he might make it after all.

 

[Stellerfella]

What we know of the issues suggests it was specific to the collaboration. Still Damen's fault for not sorting out the data sharing issues, but not something that would necessarily affect a Damen-only build.

You might be thinking of the F127 project where Germany decided to go it alone. But there was also issues with F126 beyond just handing over the data, the design had issues that delayed it, and costs inflated hugely (or Rheinmetall was trying to pull a fast one).

Now the ASWF is having serious problems and Belgium is looking at other options.

 

[MihoshiK]

You might be thinking of the F127 project where Germany decided to go it alone. But there was also issues with F126 beyond just handing over the data, the design had issues that delayed it, and costs inflated hugely (or Rheinmetall was trying to pull a fast one).

Now the ASWF is having serious problems and Belgium is looking at other options.

The ASWF is having serious redesigns. Thanks to all the shit the Dutch are learning from what's going on in the world. Damen is NOT to blame, the customer is.

And Belgium is free to do so... And lose the common training pipeline with the Dutch navy that they've been using for decades. But hey, I'm sure they have the money to set up their own*.


*LOL, they don't. ROTFLMAO in fact.