I'm happy I can apparently still raise a Huh from you, Scott - but also, welcome back! A lot of people, including me, have honestly missed you. Now I'm not really a bible thumper (though I admittedly did read the book cover to cover at one point), but Proverbs 27:17 came to mind...
 
It would be, if Europe was allied with Russia. Combined economical, natural, population resources & military power "from Lissabon till Vladivostok" would actually form a superpower rivalling US and China. But in current state of politics, such alliance is only possible in remote future. And by itself neither Europe nor Russia have superpower potential anymore.
Yeah, there's just this tiny little issue with the rule of actual democracy that Western European Nations really have a hankering for that would only allow any political association with Russia once the Putin dic(k)tatorship is gone and replaced by a *true* Russian democracy...
 
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It would be, if Europe was allied with Russia. Combined economical, natural, population resources & military power "from Lissabon till Vladivostok" would actually form a superpower rivalling US and China. But in current state of politics, such alliance is only possible in remote future. And by itself neither Europe nor Russia have superpower potential anymore.

Europe absolutely does in the age of a declining America. If this were the 1990s, maybe sure, but it's not. America is getting smaller.

It has approximately as much manufacturing potential as the United States and its financial potential is deliberately hamstrung by American economic warfare operations through the Treasury and WTO. Anyway I was thinking more economic support, like how the British supplied the Confederacy, or the Americans and USSR jointly conspired to fund the dissolution of Western European empires from the 1940s to the 1960s.

By the 2030, America's share of global manufacturing GDP is projected to fall from ~15% in 2023 to ~10%. Europe's will probably surpass it then, but we already see that, with Europe producing more artillery shells and missiles than America to give to Ukraine.

So it would just be an adversary, in the sense that it requires thinking about a potential war, and positioning of forces to secure America's East Coast from attack. It may or may not require actual action, but Europe alone would be a substantial fleet-in-being for the PRC, even if Europe did nothing but act as a third party financier. Thoroughly unthinkable to anyone stuck in a Cold War mindset but perfectly understandable to someone with a more 19th century viewpoint. Which is all multipolarity is, the defrosting of world relations that has been frozen since 1945.

The good news is that, even if adversaries, American and European interests tend to align most of the time. Which is all that matters. In a way this is like how Russia and China operate already: they may not have each others' best interest at heart, but they have mutually shared interests, and that's enough. But that's exactly what happened with NATO. It was just a protracted and very long period of a mutually shared interest that got confused as moral imperatives by subsequent generations.
 
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A Canadian perspective:

There is this assumption many Americans have that being annexed to the U.S. is being annexed to liberty, and that no one would value their sovereignty or self-determination more than the possibility of gaining U.S. citizenship. Americans (including opponents of the government, such as Democrats and Socialists) tended to emphasize how tariffs would lead to the destruction of the ability of American businesses to work with Canadian businesses... and almost always overlooked the Canadian reaction to our Prime Ministers being referred to as 'Governor Trudeau' and 'Governor Carney'.

The treats to annex Greenland made these concerns very real for Canadians.

The failure of Republican politicians to stop the executive from making these threats of annexation was the really devastating thing. The failure of the American political system to oppose forcible territorial expansion by the United States, means that we have to prepare for the possibility that a future President will try something similar.

NATO as we know it died at that point. NATO will likely become stronger as a result, but it will be a NATO which is prepared to oppose the United States if it has to.

P.S. As for Article 5 - would it not invoke a proportionate response sufficient to guarantee defense? For instance providing interceptors to help protect Turkey? It wouldn't necessarily require joining other war aims.
 
This line of thinking is quite disingenuous, because the vassalization of Europe has always been desired and worked towards by the US. If Europe would "stand on it's own legs" that would mean the US would lose the last bit of influence across the pond, would mostly be on the losing side of military contracts in the old continent and would, after losing their grip on the near east and east asia, be mostly relegated to the Americas. While that would arguably be a net benefit to the entire world, it's more than doubtful that US politicians would desire that outcome.

So no, the US doesn't want Europe to be independent, the US just wants these juicy €€€ in their pockets and sell their overpriced and in many regards underwhelming weapons systems to guilable Europeans after some serious lobby work. That's a more accurate description of what the US seeks to achieve with empty threats of leaving NATO (their biggest platform to gain leverage over the majority of western nations). They benefit by far the most from the alliance and thus it's only logical that they spend the most money. Because ultimately NATO is not a defensive alliance or anything idealistic like that (probably a hard pill to swallow for people around the age of 40-50 who grew up with that Image), it's a platform to influence and shape relations between the US and western aligned nations within the organization. That can take the shape of providing basing, which the US always happily utilizes, but it can also take the form of the sales of military equipment, exercises or the US influencing foreign policy to their benefit through the NATO framework.
Id love for you to provide an example of an underwhelming US weapon. Out of curiosity
 

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