Su-35 vs Typhoon

bobbymike

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
11,293
Reaction score
2,868
http://hushkit.net/2016/03/17/su-35-versus-typhoon-analysis-from-rusis-justin-bronk/

Found this part more interesting

How do the F-22 and Su-35 compare in terms of close-in agility/energy preservation/types of fighters (angles V energy)

The Su-35 can probably out-turn an F-22 in a horizontal fight at medium and low altitudes, but the need to carry missiles and tanks externally to be effective, as well as the brute size of the Sukhoi will ensure it remains at a distinct energy disadvantage to the Raptor in terms of energy retention and acceleration at all speeds. The F-22 also will not get into an angles fight with an Sukhoi – there is simply no need for it to do so.

How do they compare in terms of BVR engagements?

BVR engagements are all about situational awareness, positioning/energy advantage, and persistence in terms of fuel and missiles. In all but the latter category the Su-35 is hopelessly outclassed by the F-22 (as are all other operational fighter aircraft). Even in terms of missiles, the Su-35 can carry up to twelve to the F-22’s eight but combat practice, especially against stealthy targets, involves firing salvos of six missiles with mixed seekers so the Su-35 only really has two credible shots. By contrast the F-22 can get much closer without being threatened so even against the Su-35S DRFM jammers, it can fire smaller salvos with much better Pk.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
As I've posted a few times just think the 400+ F-22s we might have had by now, what an incredible conventional deterrent that fleet would have been. :'(
 

GARGEAN

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
709
Reaction score
448
BVR engagements are all about situational awareness
Cute that you mentioned this as the area where Su-35 is "hopelessly outclassed". If we go a bit away from memetic 1 vs 1 head on fights, one might notice that Su-35 has IRST that F-22 lacks, Su-35 has radar that is quite superior in few areas (better instrumental range and MUCH better coverage angles). As for survivability - Su-35 has quite hefty ECM suit which F-22 completely lacks.

Also what about "persistence in terms of fuel"?.. Su-35 has MUCH bigger range, and this can't be dropped down only on much bigger internal fuel capacity - F-22 engines are notoriously thirsty.

PS: Also what about Typhoon in the topic name?..
 

Wyvern

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
909
Reaction score
1,185
It all depends on pilot training and support assets. You can have the best fighter and support assets, but if you put a monkey like me in the cockpit, that's not going to work out at all.
 

DWG

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
1,478
Reaction score
1,665
Interesting article. I disagree in places, the bit about computers and software as a maintenance burden is strange, software doesn't break. But what it perhaps doesn't emphasise enough is aircraft specific doctrine/tactics. It's all right talking about BVR and WVR tactics, but you need to also address that Typhoon wasn't built for the classic BVR shots, then merge and WVR dogfight. It's absolutely capable of WVR dogfighting with the best of them, but the supercruise and supersonic manoeuverability is there to allow BVR shot, disengage, re-engage, BVR shot, with a WVR merge only if unavoidable. That's just as significant as Gripen being designed to get in close without being detected, or the F-22 being able to stand-off without detection. Which raises the question of what doctrine/tactics the Su-35 is designed for
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,348
Reaction score
1,540
Such "x vs Y" threads quite rarely bring actual knowledge gain, I think. Getting true data about the aircraft
may be difficult enough, but about the level of training for the pilots probably is even harder, and in the outcome,
many posts will just show personal preferences, instead of hard facts. And unfortunately, that's probably more or less the same for most publications, blogs, and public discussions.
As long, as tone and behaviour remain reasonable, they maybe ok here, though I won't actually encourage
them for the above mentioned reasons. But thoughts and opinions are free. And so, there's probably no need
to reprimand someone, participating in such a discussion, as long, as those conditions are met, I think.
The asked question "what about Typhoon in the topic name? " nevertheless isn't unfounded ...
 

bobbymike

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
11,293
Reaction score
2,868
BVR engagements are all about situational awareness
Cute that you mentioned this as the area where Su-35 is "hopelessly outclassed". If we go a bit away from memetic 1 vs 1 head on fights, one might notice that Su-35 has IRST that F-22 lacks, Su-35 has radar that is quite superior in few areas (better instrumental range and MUCH better coverage angles). As for survivability - Su-35 has quite hefty ECM suit which F-22 completely lacks.

Also what about "persistence in terms of fuel"?.. Su-35 has MUCH bigger range, and this can't be dropped down only on much bigger internal fuel capacity - F-22 engines are notoriously thirsty.

PS: Also what about Typhoon in the topic name?..
I didn’t mention anything the article I linked did

What about Typhoon of the five year old article linked well the title of the article is.

Sukhoi Su-35 versus Eurofighter Typhoon: Analysis from RUSI’s Justin Bronk​

 
Last edited:

GARGEAN

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
709
Reaction score
448
Did they even announce the radar capabilities of the Captor-E?
>280km range
0.1m^2 SAR resolution
>1400 T/R module
>50 tracked targets
>20kw Pulse power
This is current version data.
(The pulse power is for Mk1)
oh and SAR resolution should be for Mk1 as well

In short - VERY capable radar, in few areas superior to APG-77 from F-22.
 

tequilashooter

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Jan 2, 2021
Messages
583
Reaction score
703
I would be down for a F-35 vs Su-57 thread with the future prospects of either aircraft if someone makes it, but would want moderators and the admin to avert their eyes for at least a period of 24 hours from the thread before returning back since I think it wont last under one hour until it closes.
 

uk 75

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
3,715
Reaction score
2,687
It is interesting to note how little "actual" air combat experience we have to draw on.
The influence of the encounters between US and North Vietnamese pilots and aircraft continues to be strong even though it is now half a century ago and more.
The RAF has not engaged in air to air combat with Javelins, Lightnings, Phantoms, Tornados, or so far at least, Typhoons.
Turkey is the only NATO air force to have clashed with Russian fighters.
 

Similar threads

Top