StandOff & PGM Weapons

Ukraine developing and deploying its' own version of the PJDAM would be of immense help as to take the JDAM-ER for example (Which Ukraine has) has a range of 45 miles whereas Boeing's proposed PJDAM has a range of 150 miles. If Ukraine had something like that it would make things a lot easier in conducting air strikes against Russian targets that are otherwise difficult or impossible to strike with the JDAM-ER.
 
kqcke for you said:
Something i greatly overlooked until is that Rafael is stating that for the Spice 250 ER a reduced warhead weight (reduced from what? The Spice 250 75kg?) will get them a range of +300km and all the fun swarm stuff. At that point its hard to argue for the Spear 3 anymore given that i probaly doesn't have the same payload / range but also does not show to be a super cheap weapon (from which its likely to cost the same or more).
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Spear will already have 200km+ range, with a superior seeker and lower weight.

But if you want range....see the latest LPS version....you could fit 4 in the F-35 internal bays...and the range will be enormous...(it's >3m long compared to Spear's 1.8m length...at least double the fuel...possibly more).
 
NMaude said:
Probably not a Neptune adaption (It looks too small and its form is different from an R-360) but I have no doubt the Ukraine is working on its own SLAM/SLAM-ER versions of the Neptune (I wonder when they will introduce SLAM-ER type wings as they would no doubt greatly extend the range of the R-360?).
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I mean given the use of wings they maybe are able to build land attack neptuns in a smaller package. But to be honest it does looks to small for it
 
timmymagic said:
Spear will already have 200km+ range, with a superior seeker and lower weight.
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I gonna argue that that small amount of weight really doesn't matter mutch for the most part and yes a lot of times its a requierments question but i really find it hard to argue for it without some large advantage. But given PWs work in 3D printing TJ-150s it may achieve a really good advantage in the future and well EW (when its finnished).
timmymagic said:
But if you want range....see the latest LPS version....you could fit 4 in the F-35 internal bays...and the range will be enormous...(it's >3m long compared to Spear's 1.8m length...at least double the fuel...possibly more).
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Then again how much more range have they, how mutch more bang bring they. I mean yes too LPS which i i would love to see for F-35 and EF but that thing probaly needs more time (not that i know of Spice 250 ER to be mutch farther developted,).
 
kqcke for you said:
Something i greatly overlooked until is that Rafael is stating that for the Spice 250 ER a reduced warhead weight (reduced from what? The Spice 250 75kg?) will get them a range of +300km and all the fun swarm stuff.
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I’m pretty sure SPICE 250ER were supposed to have 150 km range, not that much different from SPEAR
 
kqcke for you said:
Thats why there is a link to an EDR report with it which i totaly didn't forget to edit in which states that.

Now here its finally there https://www.edrmagazine.eu/rafael-e...duces-a-new-air-to-air-6th-generation-missile
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But is it actually going ahead? That article states that it was being aimed at Germany, but they're definitely on the Spear pathway now...integration with Typhoon and F-35 is happening, a Brimstone production line in Germany....and an EW variant compatible with Typhoon...

kqcke for you said:
Then again how much more range have they, how mutch more bang bring they. I mean yes too LPS which i i would love to see for F-35 and EF but that thing probaly needs more time (not that i know of Spice 250 ER to be mutch farther developted,).
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If you've integrated Spear already, adding in a Spear-ER would be exceptionally easy as all the hard work will have been done already (at huge expense and paid for by the UK). That won't be the case for Spice...you can add in a few hundred million USD for that....and you then have the political issues of Israeli weapons...

But who has actually purchased Spice 250 or Spice 250-ER outside of Israel? Rafael have been trying to flog it for years now, and no-one appears to have bitten (there may have been some smaller sales to countries who are secretive about these things like Azerbaijan, but so far only Israel confirmed for the 250 variant only). As far as we know its only integrated on F-16I and F-15I. Seems like Rafael are desperately trying to drum up interest by offering the moon....the standard ER which hasn't sold only has a c150km range (I suspect its more like 200km in reality).
 
timmymagic said:
But is it actually going ahead? That article states that it was being aimed at Germany, but they're definitely on the Spear pathway now...integration with Typhoon and F-35 is happening, a Brimstone production line in Germany....and an EW variant compatible with Typhoon...
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They still showed it at the ILA 2024 so they may believe it has a chance ? Also when does Typhon get Spear 3? P4E?
timmymagic said:
If you've integrated Spear already, adding in a Spear-ER would be exceptionally easy as all the hard work will have been done already (at huge expense and paid for by the UK). That won't be the case for Spice...you can add in a few hundred million USD for that....and you then have the political issues of Israeli weapons...
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Yeah i mean it also probaly wont help when israel integreated Spice 250(ER) into there F-35I.
timmymagic said:
But who has actually purchased Spice 250 or Spice 250-ER outside of Israel? Rafael have been trying to flog it for years now, and no-one appears to have bitten (there may have been some smaller sales to countries who are secretive about these things like Azerbaijan, but so far only Israel confirmed for the 250 variant only). As far as we know its only integrated on F-16I and F-15I. Seems like Rafael are desperately trying to drum up interest by offering the moon....the standard ER which hasn't sold only has a c150km range (I suspect its more like 200km in reality).
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I heard something about india but outside that im Not really sure about it.
 
timmymagic said:
But if you want range....see the latest LPS version....you could fit 4 in the F-35 internal bays...and the range will be enormous...(it's >3m long compared to Spear's 1.8m length...at least double the fuel...possibly more).
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You know im just asking myself if with the sidekick kit one could take 3 LPS and AMRAAM with or 4 MACE/ Speed Racer
 

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I wish they would provide some length or weight information. Though probably the 109/250/500 figures roughly equate to weight class. I wonder if the 250 would fit two to a bay in F-35 as per the MACE requirement?
 
Josh_TN said:
I wish they would provide some length or weight information. Though probably the 109/250/500 figures roughly equate to weight class. I wonder if the 250 would fit two to a bay in F-35 as per the MACE requirement?
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Yeah but wasn't Mace asking for more? Like 500nmi range with (i think) ~70kg warhead?
 
dark sidius said:
The nose is different than the other F-15 and the paint scheme of the Navy on the inlet... strange picture. The number 200 ...
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They probably just had an AI stamp the image out. I never read into renderings; they rarely have anything to do with reality.
 
30% smaller expected pricetag that is mentioned still means quite an expensive missile, especially for the biggest variant.
 
totoro said:
30% smaller expected pricetag that is mentioned still means quite an expensive missile, especially for the biggest variant.
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None of their percentages give a baseline to compare to. Certainly if AGM-158 is the direct comparison, I’m not impressed. But on the other hand the smaller versions are Hellfire/JATGM and SBD-II. Plus they have not even chosen a seeker yet, a potentially high priced item. There just is not enough data. But certainly I like their basic strategy (across most of their business) of less exotic materials and commercially available components.
 
True, but taking the Barracuda 500, there aren't many missiles to compare it to, in said range bracket. Basically just jassm and tomahwk.
Even if one used jsm as baseline, 30% cheaper would still be a lot.
 
Josh_TN said:
None of their percentages give a baseline to compare to. Certainly if AGM-158 is the direct comparison, I’m not impressed. But on the other hand the smaller versions are Hellfire/JATGM and SBD-II. Plus they have not even chosen a seeker yet, a potentially high priced item. There just is not enough data. But certainly I like their basic strategy (across most of their business) of less exotic materials and commercially available components.
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MACE requirements call for a threshold of 75 lb payload and cost of roughly $300K. If Barracuda 300 can meet that on cost (it already exceeds on payload) it will be a really neat capability even if it is too long to fit four inside the F-35C. Lockheed's Speed Racer is nearly the perfect air vehicle for a MACE type requirement but I have not seen anyone else market a half length cruise missile for a larger magazine.
 
Anduril's Website on the Barracuda: https://www.anduril.com/barracuda/

Some of the media from Anduril's page on the Barracuda attached below.

Certainly taking their claims of "disrupting the cruise missile market" (as if cruise missiles are as wide as a market as any other sort of consumer tech market lol) with a grain of salt but even many of these other broad claims I'm still a bit skeptical about.

Additionally, Anduril seems to also be trying to market the Barracuda-100 and 250 as both air to surface and surface to surface missile systems
Some of the stats for a ground based launcher for the 100 and 250:

Barracuda-100​

  • Range: >60nm (Ground)
  • Prospective Launch Platforms: Ground-Launch (No Further elaboration)

Barracuda-250​

  • Range: >150nm (Ground)
  • Prospective Launch Platforms: Surface (MFOM, Surface Vessel)

Another interesting thing to notice is how the only specifically named payload Anduril has on their website is: "Kinetic" and probably put the more conventional "Explosive" payload with the "Other" label.
 

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HalfACupOfRice said:
Another interesting thing to notice is how the only specifically named payload Anduril has on their website is: "Kinetic" and probably put the more conventional "Explosive" payload with the "Other" label.
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That could be more buzzword-salad. Kinetic engagements means stuff blowing up, non-kinetic engagements means electronic warfare.
 
Forest Green said:
Not your average stand-off, precision guided munition, but certainly ticks all 3 boxes.

www.twz.com

Hezbollah's Exploding Pagers Could Be As Monumental A Cyber-Espionage Operation As Stuxnet

We live surrounded by networked devices equipped with packs full of potential energy, possibly offering adversaries an unprecedented vector for kinetic attacks.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
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So, Israeli .gov impounded the lot of pagers before shipping them on to Lebanon, and the Hezbollah folks weren't smart enough to inspect them before issuing them out to members?
 
I believe this is the right thread for this video concerning a Defense Updates video about Anduril Industries Barracuda cruise-missile series:


Anduril Industries has revealed its “Barracuda” family of cruise missiles.
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The weapons are already in flight test and sensors will be added as per requirements.The family of weapons comprises the Barracuda-100, -250, and -500.
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The missile series has been designed to be a low-cost weapon as well as can be rapidly produced with uncomplicated processes.The Barracuda family is powered by Anduril’s Lattice for Mission Autonomy software, allowing for autonomous and collaborative behaviors that are critical in contested environments.
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In this video, Defense Updates reports how the Barracuda series of missiles help the US military in future conflicts ?
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#defenseupdates #baracudamissile #usmilitary
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Chapters:
00:11 INTRODUCTION
01:40 BARRACUDA OVERVIEW
04:38 FLEXIBLE, COST EFFECTIVE AND EASIER TO PRODUCE
06:40 ANALYSIS
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Forest Green said:
The pagers were only being used by Hezbollah and since they were triggered from standoff range and precisely took out their targets using very little explosive, I think it ticks all boxes and is not an act of terrorism since it killed terrorists.
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Sineva said:
Yes,its pretty tasteless,and that is putting it very mildly.Basically like describing the hijacked airliners used in the sept 11th attack as "pgms".
The recent events in lebanon were an act of mass product tampering which was clearly intended to cause as many casualties [deaths and injuries] as possible.This is quite literally the very definition of an act of terrorism.
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These two posts are clear examples of why this topic needs to be shipped off into its own conversation, so that it can be locked or ignored when it inevitably becomes political.
 

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