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Space X to fly first private passenger around the moon

Flyaway

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SpaceX has signed the world’s first private passenger to fly around the Moon aboard our BFR launch vehicle—an important step toward enabling access for everyday people who dream of traveling to space. Find out who’s flying and why on Monday, September 17.
https://twitter.com/id/status/1040397262248005632

Elon confirms underneath that’s a new render of the BFR. You can find a better version of the image on the link below.

https://www.spacex.com
 

Archibald

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Here we go again. As in February 2017. Btw, BFS seems to have changed, not exactly for good: it now looks like a Shuttle orbiter.

Wait and see.
 

sferrin

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Archibald said:
Here we go again. As in February 2017. Btw, BFS seems to have changed, not exactly for good: it now looks like a Shuttle orbiter.

Wait and see.
3 fins now instead of two (more weight and drag). And the "150 tons to orbit" included the weight of the orbiter so it's more like 100 tons. . . even less now with the extra fin.
 

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sferrin said:
And the "150 tons to orbit" included the weight of the orbiter
Exactly what is your source here? SpaceX has never referred to the payload capacity of any of their rockets as including the second stage.
 

sferrin

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Tuna said:
sferrin said:
And the "150 tons to orbit" included the weight of the orbiter
Exactly what is your source here? SpaceX has never referred to the payload capacity of any of their rockets as including the second stage.
Their initial release said 150 tons to orbit with BFR. Something I saw a week or two ago said, "100 tons when fully reusable".

here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Cz6vF4ONE
 

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Find out who’s flying and why on Monday, September 17 at 6pm PT.

Video stream will be here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu7WJD8vpAQ
 

Flyaway

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sferrin said:
Tuna said:
sferrin said:
And the "150 tons to orbit" included the weight of the orbiter
Exactly what is your source here? SpaceX has never referred to the payload capacity of any of their rockets as including the second stage.
Their initial release said 150 tons to orbit with BFR. Something I saw a week or two ago said, "100 tons when fully reusable".
All I will say to you on the second figure is source, as it’s a new one on me?
 

sferrin

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Flyaway said:
sferrin said:
Tuna said:
sferrin said:
And the "150 tons to orbit" included the weight of the orbiter
Exactly what is your source here? SpaceX has never referred to the payload capacity of any of their rockets as including the second stage.
Their initial release said 150 tons to orbit with BFR. Something I saw a week or two ago said, "100 tons when fully reusable".
All I will say to you on the second figure is source, as it’s a new one on me?
See above. I always wondered about the 150 tons claim because if it meant 150 tons AND the orbiter that would be a hell of a launcher. For example, the Shuttle is always quoted as 65,000lb payload because the 150,000lbs of the orbiter itself didn't count.
 

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https://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/making_life_multiplanetary-2017.pdf

Clearly states that 150 tons is the payload to LEO for the BFR spacecraft, not for the BFR first stage.

BFR is a hell of a big launcher -- bigger than Saturn V. The only really comparable launcher being discussed is SLS Block 2.
 

sferrin

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TomS said:
https://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/making_life_multiplanetary-2017.pdf

Clearly states that 150 tons is the payload to LEO for the BFR spacecraft, not for the BFR first stage.

BFR is a hell of a big launcher -- bigger than Saturn V. The only really comparable launcher being discussed is SLS Block 2.
Did you watch the video? From video:
 

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sferrin said:
TomS said:
https://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/making_life_multiplanetary-2017.pdf

Clearly states that 150 tons is the payload to LEO for the BFR spacecraft, not for the BFR first stage.

BFR is a hell of a big launcher -- bigger than Saturn V. The only really comparable launcher being discussed is SLS Block 2.
Did you watch the video? From video:
Yep. Sorry, I was responding to the idea that the payload number includes the weight of the second stage, which isn't so. It sounds like they've downsized a bit more in the latest iterations of the design.
 

sferrin

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TomS said:
sferrin said:
TomS said:
https://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/making_life_multiplanetary-2017.pdf

Clearly states that 150 tons is the payload to LEO for the BFR spacecraft, not for the BFR first stage.

BFR is a hell of a big launcher -- bigger than Saturn V. The only really comparable launcher being discussed is SLS Block 2.
Did you watch the video? From video:
Yep. Sorry, I was responding to the idea that the payload number includes the weight of the second stage, which isn't so. It sounds like they've downsized a bit more in the latest iterations of the design.
Or maybe the payload ratio just went down as weight goes up with the detail design work (adding a 3rd fin and it's associated weight and drag for instance).
 

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I think that more than the fin the issue is that they seem to have moved from 3x sea level, 4x vacuum engine setup to using 7x the same engine. For landing considerations, those engines must remain able to throttle down deep while in 1 bar without becoming too underexpanded, so they just lost 10-15s of planned specific impulse.
 

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BFS looks like an escapee from a George Pal movie. I like it!

David
 

Flyaway

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Via NASASpaceflight forum this appears to be the passenger for the Moon excursion.

Yusaku Maezawa 前澤友作 Aug 31
I will start tweets not only in Japanese but also in English from today.
Yusaku Maezawa 前澤友作 Sep 1
Big announcement here soon. Please follow me and stay tuned!!!
When will be schedule to be announced?

Yusaku Maezawa 前澤友作 Retweeted T.H Sep 1
about mid September
And today... he's put up a cryptic tweet with a picture of his watch here:
https://twitter.com/yousuck2020/status/1041135281653465088

 

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https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1041482806600204294
Elon Musk (@elonmusk)
Replying to @johnkoetsier
Design has been changed so the lands on legs that extend from the tips of the three fins, two of which actuate (mostly for pitch control)
7:23 PM - 16 Sep 2018

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1041553238477008896

What’s this thing near the nose ? Looks like some retractable thing ?
Elon Musk said:
Forward moving wing
Another picture.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnRWgQmVYAAclo-.jpg

More images.


https://twitter.com/thepixelgeek/status/1041547794689884160

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1041552262286389253

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1041552262286389253
 

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The livestream / video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu7WJD8vpAQ

Yusaku Maezawa is indeed the first BFR passenger, but he won't be alone - over the next few years he'll be selecting 6 to 8 artists, representing different fields such as music, painting, architecture, film directors, photographers, etc (note that there aren't locked-in 'categories'), to fly with him around the Moon. Upon their return, those artists will then create artwork inspired by the Moon and their trip.

More information about the project is available at https://dearmoon.earth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wrk5u8FgbM

The trip itself will take approximately 6 days; the BFR has been updated to use 7 Raptor engines, with upward-folding canards and tail fins - these do not rotate, but just hinge upwards to provide roll stability and pitch control for belly-first re-entry (before transitioning to a tail-first vertical landing). The tail fin of the BFR isn't actually expected to have any aerodynamic impact during re-entry (it'll be completely hidden in the ship's wake); it's just solely designed to be a landing leg with a symmetrically aerodynamic cover. The objects on the bottom of the ship, surrounding the engines, are supposedly cargo containers (I would speculate that they can be winched to the ground), not a pseudo-bell nozzle. The ship is 118m long, 9m in diameter and has a 100t payload to LEO or to Mars when refueled in LEO (as is planned).
 

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Let's hope one of the artists paints an enormous mutant star goat with scything teeth thousands of miles long.


Maybe keep at least one telephone sanitizer, though.
 

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_Del_ said:
Let's hope one of the artists paints an enormous mutant star goat with scything teeth thousands of miles long.
Heh. As sad as it is that lib arts will get the glory on this flight, the fact is that it will be hard engineering that makes it happen, and steely eyed missile men will be the actual crew. And so it gives me the chuckles to imagine the ship heading off around the moon, a hundred onboard webcams sending back the live footage of the artists partying and the crew keeping the ship running, when the ship goes behind the moon and signal is lost. And a few minutes later the ship comes back around and regains contact... and the webcams have shown that all the artists have gone bugnuts. They saw the cosmic horror that lives on the lunar farside and they've lost their minds and are going all "Event Horizon" on each other.

And then the audience switch feeds to the *crew* cameras, and they're busy calmly running the ship and quickly donning their suits. They saw the same avatar of Azathoth squirming away on the moon, but being scientists and engineers, rather than going nuts their response was "Huh. Look at that."

And a moment later, when all the crew are suited up, they calmly open the door and flush the artists out into space so they'll stop trying to wreck the ship.
 

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Short version of BFR updates: payload, fins, engine, moon trajectory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6vYaBZB1u0
 

Flyaway

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Orionblamblam said:
_Del_ said:
Let's hope one of the artists paints an enormous mutant star goat with scything teeth thousands of miles long.
Heh. As sad as it is that lib arts will get the glory on this flight, the fact is that it will be hard engineering that makes it happen, and steely eyed missile men will be the actual crew. And so it gives me the chuckles to imagine the ship heading off around the moon, a hundred onboard webcams sending back the live footage of the artists partying and the crew keeping the ship running, when the ship goes behind the moon and signal is lost. And a few minutes later the ship comes back around and regains contact... and the webcams have shown that all the artists have gone bugnuts. They saw the cosmic horror that lives on the lunar farside and they've lost their minds and are going all "Event Horizon" on each other.

And then the audience switch feeds to the *crew* cameras, and they're busy calmly running the ship and quickly donning their suits. They saw the same avatar of Azathoth squirming away on the moon, but being scientists and engineers, rather than going nuts their response was "Huh. Look at that."

And a moment later, when all the crew are suited up, they calmly open the door and flush the artists out into space so they'll stop trying to wreck the ship.
There will be hardly any crew the ship is quite capable of flying itself without the need for many humans. All Space X vehicles are designed to fly themselves with minimal human interaction that’s what Musk was taking about when talking partly about cutting edge technology. We aren’t talking the Apollo system here you know.
 

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Flyaway said:
Orionblamblam said:
_Del_ said:
Let's hope one of the artists paints an enormous mutant star goat with scything teeth thousands of miles long.
Heh. As sad as it is that lib arts will get the glory on this flight, the fact is that it will be hard engineering that makes it happen, and steely eyed missile men will be the actual crew. And so it gives me the chuckles to imagine the ship heading off around the moon, a hundred onboard webcams sending back the live footage of the artists partying and the crew keeping the ship running, when the ship goes behind the moon and signal is lost. And a few minutes later the ship comes back around and regains contact... and the webcams have shown that all the artists have gone bugnuts. They saw the cosmic horror that lives on the lunar farside and they've lost their minds and are going all "Event Horizon" on each other.

And then the audience switch feeds to the *crew* cameras, and they're busy calmly running the ship and quickly donning their suits. They saw the same avatar of Azathoth squirming away on the moon, but being scientists and engineers, rather than going nuts their response was "Huh. Look at that."

And a moment later, when all the crew are suited up, they calmly open the door and flush the artists out into space so they'll stop trying to wreck the ship.
There will be hardly any crew the ship is quite capable of flying itself without the need for many humans. All Space X vehicles are designed to fly themselves with minimal human interaction that’s what Musk was taking about when talking partly about cutting edge technology. We aren’t talking the Apollo system here you know.
Until there are Apollo 13 moments requiring STEM skills and test pilot steel.
 

Flyaway

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starviking said:
Flyaway said:
Orionblamblam said:
_Del_ said:
Let's hope one of the artists paints an enormous mutant star goat with scything teeth thousands of miles long.
Heh. As sad as it is that lib arts will get the glory on this flight, the fact is that it will be hard engineering that makes it happen, and steely eyed missile men will be the actual crew. And so it gives me the chuckles to imagine the ship heading off around the moon, a hundred onboard webcams sending back the live footage of the artists partying and the crew keeping the ship running, when the ship goes behind the moon and signal is lost. And a few minutes later the ship comes back around and regains contact... and the webcams have shown that all the artists have gone bugnuts. They saw the cosmic horror that lives on the lunar farside and they've lost their minds and are going all "Event Horizon" on each other.

And then the audience switch feeds to the *crew* cameras, and they're busy calmly running the ship and quickly donning their suits. They saw the same avatar of Azathoth squirming away on the moon, but being scientists and engineers, rather than going nuts their response was "Huh. Look at that."

And a moment later, when all the crew are suited up, they calmly open the door and flush the artists out into space so they'll stop trying to wreck the ship.
There will be hardly any crew the ship is quite capable of flying itself without the need for many humans. All Space X vehicles are designed to fly themselves with minimal human interaction that’s what Musk was taking about when talking partly about cutting edge technology. We aren’t talking the Apollo system here you know.
Until there are Apollo 13 moments requiring STEM skills and test pilot steel.
By the way I’ve based my comments about Space X have said about the autonomous nature of Dragon 2.
 

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I'm gonna postulate that there will be at least two actual spacecraft crew for the lunar flight. It was mentioned that Maezawa purchased all the passenger seats. No mention of crew. Regardless of automation and testing there is no way such a large and complex machine is going to be sent into the cosmos without real astronauts knowing what they hell is going on at all time.

While I respect Maezawa's desire to fill the seats with artists since he purchased the capacity, filling it with artists for the sake of art and world peace is just silly. Such idealism is why you can't take these people seriously, creating a further divide between high brow artists who think they've achieved some kind of ascension vs engineers and scientists. I'd be alot more respectful of Maezawa if he had reserved the seats for artists and scientists alike. Artists before the modern era tended to be polymaths, contributing to far more than just art, and therefore were insanely respectable people. Artists these days just tend to be really shallow, in a perpetual circle jerk, patting each other on the back and laughing all the way to the bank as the plebs aspire to achieve the artists' lifestyles.

I was kind of hoping for some kind of big "one more thing" surprise, like the development of a lunar lander, taking this whole thing to 11, as opposed to just a fly-by. Now I'm just annoyed but if space is to be opened up to everyone, I guess I have to open my heart ::)
 

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The man's paying for the flight, he can take who he likes.

I don't much cotton the "divide" talk, there are astronaut artists, and more terrestrial artists who also intelligent scientists, engineers, or architects. I also think the notion of taking artists is a pretty nice gesture and good marketing all in one. Having this historic flight accompanied with art that was not just inspired by watching it but by taking part in it will be fantastic for people who will watch closely and for those who will only be "captured" by seeing the art or hearing the music. Much like how Alan Bean's work is among the best Apollo art in no small part because he was there.

I think we can do without the "hurr durr, fire liberals into space" or "airlock the dumb artists" talk around here. Thought we were better than that.
 

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Harry Martinson was a true artist. I recommend reading his take on space travel, the epic poem, Aniara. That will temper your enthusiasm for the proposal of having the first passengers, 'artists', aboard a true spaceship. But, the tickets have been sold -- let's see what the intellectual elite do to express the experience to we, the great-unwashed riff-raff.

David
 

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Moose said:
The man's paying for the flight, he can take who he likes.

I don't much cotton the "divide" talk, there are astronaut artists, and more terrestrial artists who also intelligent scientists, engineers, or architects. I also think the notion of taking artists is a pretty nice gesture and good marketing all in one. Having this historic flight accompanied with art that was not just inspired by watching it but by taking part in it will be fantastic for people who will watch closely and for those who will only be "captured" by seeing the art or hearing the music. Much like how Alan Bean's work is among the best Apollo art in no small part because he was there.

I think we can do without the "hurr durr, fire liberals into space" or "airlock the dumb artists" talk around here. Thought we were better than that.
And consider that Elon Musk understands the importance of inspiring the public. Artists are going to be able to communicate the feeling of being in space on an emotional level better than a technical nerd. This is every bit as much a PR mission as a technical one.
 

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sferrin said:
And consider that Elon Musk understands the importance of inspiring the public. Artists are going to be able to communicate the feeling of being in space on an emotional level better than a technical nerd. This is every bit as much a PR mission as a technical one.
+1. Well said.
 

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sferrin said:
And consider that Elon Musk understands the importance of inspiring the public. Artists are going to be able to communicate the feeling of being in space on an emotional level better than a technical nerd. This is every bit as much a PR mission as a technical one.
The move was pretty obvious, and I agree with you on the inspiring part. Nerds and engineers are already excited over everything SpaceX. The general public and the youth who pay so much heed to the art side of things need to be brought on to push humanity to space, at least to tell their political leaders that space matters and is worth funding.

It's just that, after 45 years since being anywhere close to Luna, it just seems that science research should be part of this mission. There's still too much to learn, and I sincerely hope anyone who gains the privelage to treat it with due respect, perhaps even takes on some scientific research duties. These will be people without years of aerospace related training like the Apollo astronauts. Medical knowledge gained will be interesting. I really hope that Maezawa realizes this goes beyond his art project.
 

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sferrin said:
And consider that Elon Musk understands the importance of inspiring the public. Artists are going to be able to communicate the feeling of being in space on an emotional level better than a technical nerd.
Depends very much on the artist, doesn't it. The billionaire was wearing a T-shirt featuring "art" by a feller name of Basquiat, and said that he was the sort of guy he'd like to take along. The problem is... well, here's the first piece of Basquiat "art" that popped up with a google search:


Now, art is subjective. But honestly, does this uplift? Does it inspire? Does it actually display any evidence of skill or talent?

And THIS one sold for a record-breaking $85 million:



And world-renowned talentless hack Andy Warhol was suggested as another artist of the kind that the guy paying for the flight would like to take along.

Gah.
 

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A US born Haitian as the prototype of the 21st century Colonialism: Bravo Eon, THAT IS ART By the greatest of it!!! Genial!
 

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Moose said:
I think we can do without the "hurr durr, fire liberals into space" or "airlock the dumb artists" talk around here. Thought we were better than that.
Who said anything about firing liberals into space? The subject is *art,* not political leanings, and there are oodles of artists who are not liberals.

And if you didn't get the *obvious* literary references with the artists going bugnuts and the STEM folks staying sane... well, you need to bump up your knowledge of the classics.
 

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Michel_Basquiat

The BFR in Eon vision is all about settling on Mars. Colombus most famously first discovered island is Hispaniola, now known as Haiti and the Dominican Republic.

When Columbus took possession of the island in 1492, he named it Insula Hispana in Latin[7] and La Isla Española in Spanish,[8] with both meaning "the Spanish island". De las Casas shortened the name to "Española", and when d‘Anghiera detailed his account of the island in Latin, he rendered its name as Hispaniola.[8] In the oldest documented map of the island, created by Andrés de Morales, Los Haitises is labeled Montes de Haití ("Haiti Mountains"), and de las Casas apparently named the whole island Haiti on the basis of that particular region,[4] as d'Anghiera states that the name of one part was given to the whole island.[3]
Source:
Wiki
 

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Anyway, if you want to get people inspired to go into space, then, yes, artists could well be the way to go. But they need to be creators of *beautiful* art, not ugly dreck or stuff that you need a novella worth of explanation to understand.

Simplify it: get your artists from PornHub. *THAT* will get people wanting to go, believe you me.
 

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Trump should be very supportive if you blast one particularly famous porn actress... into space.*
 

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The SpaceX presentation included this painting. *THIS* is the sort of art that might do the job of inspiring: show spaceflight as classically beautiful and graceful and, well, classy.
 

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Orionblamblam said:
The SpaceX presentation included this painting. *THIS* is the sort of art that might do the job of inspiring: show spaceflight as classically beautiful and graceful and, well, classy.
Inspired by a certain scene from the Fifth Element perhaps?
 
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