Small UAS / Drones and related general thread - NOT Swarming ones.

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Starlink

High-speed internet. Available almost anywhere on Earth.
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So, unmodified 5G phones can get real time video to low earth orbit, now enabled by starship scaled large satellites.

Seems like the same would work for even all but the smallest of drones too. The accessibility is a game changer since most conflicts is not escalating into blowing up a lot of stuff in space.
 
Starlink is a potentially huge asset and liability in a conflict. The U.S. probably has to seriously consider methods of suppressing it locally. There have been a couple of successful academic research efforts that used satellite positions and Doppler changes to create a ~10m accurate navigation system without the use of an account - that is to say, totally passive/noncooeporative satellite navigation. Starlink is a huge piece of infrastructure that potentially anyone can exploit, and the large effort to lock the Russians out only demonstrates how difficult any filtering of friend or foe would be, even assuming the company/Musk felt strongly on a particular usage of the system.
 

Russian analysis compares tank cost to FPV drone swarms​

FPV-Drone-Cost-Equivalents-of-Russian-Armored-Vehicles-1.png
 
Are not there multiple UAVs that already fit that description, eg Bolt?
 
lmaoxd said:
thats any ukrainian or russian FPV nowadays? Im sure they can simply ask the ukranians to expand their drone production or set up a clone in europe.
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I think the goal here would be something that packs easily and is rugged enough to be heavily shaken across a wide range of temperatures and still reliably work, where as Russian and Ukrainian drones are a numbers game. If drone unit pulls out a UAV and it fails to work, toss it on the trash heap and grab another. SOCOM needs something that more or less works every time.
 
UpForce said:
An explosive and thorough investigation has just been released by Hunterbrook on how Ubiquiti ($UI) communications gear is serving a prevalent enabling role in Russia's military aggression and widespread human rights violations in Ukraine, especially with regard to UAS operations. It also details how the equipment, despite ostensible sanctions, gets from the US into Russia.
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Apparently not much has been done about this as Pussy Riot has protested the company outside its Manhattan HQ. Perhaps especially pertinent now as Ubiquiti's previous debacle was with Iran sanctions and Russia currently supporting Iran's regime.

 
Michel Van said:
This could be Game changer in Drone warfare
Japan tested first Drone made from cardboard !
this would reduce cost drastic in production
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Corvo has been doing flat pack cardboard UAVs for some years already; not surprising as some RC hobbyists have been building from cardboard and/or foamboard for I don't know how long. They're not the only manufacturer either, I remember discussing these and their potential with professionals at the time they emerged. Corvo UAVs have been flying in Ukraine as well.

Our Products - CORVO

The Australian owned, designed and manufactured Corvo range of advanced Uncrewed Aerial Systems, Autonomous
corvouas.com.au corvouas.com.au

View: https://youtu.be/5ckYz616rEc


Some mentions here as well:



 
That's handy, it'll direct to the within the coverage of SHORAD systems, rather than going through the gaps between them.
 
Forest Green said:
That's handy, it'll direct to the within the coverage of SHORAD systems, rather than going through the gaps between them.
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? was that an attempt at a joke?

anyway, I Dont think they're going to be highly used anyway especially since the whole point of the geran-3/shahed-136 is to strike at a incredibly cheap price. Its going to be similar to the r60 equipped gerans/shaheds in a way that they might be used alongside large swarms to hopefully tag a heli/radar but not used individually.
Still dangerous but not very practical at scale due to cost reasons
 
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lmaoxd said:
? was that an attempt at a joke?

anyway, I Dont think they're going to be highly used anyway especially since the whole point of the geran-3/shahed-136 is to strike at a incredibly cheap price. Its going to be similar to the r60 equipped gerans/shaheds in a way that they might be used alongside large swarms to hopefully tag a heli/radar but not used individually.
Still dangerous but not very practical at scale due to cost reasons
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Not at all, the biggest problem with scale drone attacks is that they get through to gaps because covering every route is impossible, but if they go where there isn't a gap, that plays to the defender's advantage.
 
The FY27 PB requests a massive funding increase for robotic and autonomous systems:

$54.6B for the Defense Autonomous Warfare Group (DAWG) is requested for FY27, up from $225M in FY26. This is a defense-wide line item under RDT&E for "advanced component development and prototypes." This is the largest single line item in the FY27 PB by far.

DAWG grew out of the Replicator program from the last administration. It encompasses naval autonomous systems and one-way attack drones, among other things, and is related to the Portfolio Acquisition Executive Robotic Autonomous System, a Navy PAE. DAWG sits within SOCOM.

DAWG excludes "small drones" like FPV drones and also excludes C-UAS.

“We have embarked on a Drone Dominance initiative … funded by Congress, and that’s for smaller drones,” Michael said, speaking alongside Paparo at the Reagan Forum. “What we’re working on with Adm. Paparo and the [Defense] Autonomous Warfare Group is larger drones, one-way attack drones.

There’s a third imperative in this domain as well, the R&D chief added: counter-drone defense — especially for the US homeland, and above all for high-profile events like the 2026 World Cup and the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence.
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breakingdefense.com

‘It’s alive’: Biden-era Replicator drone initiative lives on as DAWG, looking at bigger UASs - Breaking Defense

Renamed the Defense Autonomous Working Group, the drone initiative is now conducting wargames and working on larger, longer-ranged attack drones, Adm. Sam Paparo and Pentagon CTO Emil Michael said.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
 
I think it is important to note that while the 27 budget request is a good measuring stick for what the DoD is prioritizing, it is DOA in Congress. Even the GOP will not pass it - enacting it increases the budget deficit and removes social services. In the House, this immediately loses both the freedom caucus and purple district republicans. Democrats likely vote en bloc, for the most part. In the senate it dies with the filibuster, and even reconciliation seems unlikely until after the next election. No senators in contested seats are going to die on that hill.
 
Josh_TN said:
I think it is important to note that while the 27 budget request is a good measuring stick for what the DoD is prioritizing, it is DOA in Congress. Even the GOP will not pass it - enacting it increases the budget deficit and removes social services.
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I agree that it's mostly dead on arrival, although I think the GOP would be happy to provide the $1.5T. The Republicans can still get a reconciliation bill through, at least this year, so we might see that. All bets are off next year when Democrats (likely) retake both the House and Senate. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
 
joshjosh said:
I agree that it's mostly dead on arrival, although I think the GOP would be happy to provide the $1.5T. The Republicans can still get a reconciliation bill through, at least this year, so we might see that. All bets are off next year when Democrats (likely) retake both the House and Senate. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
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No, the GOP is not remotely unified on that issue due to deficit hawks and vulnerable seats. There is IMO little chance of any reconciliation bill of any kind, and I would be surprised if even the current war expenditures were funded. So while the budget request does give a lot of indications of where the administration wants to spend money - very munitions, UAV, and Space Force centered - it should be viewed as purely aspirational.
 
Josh_TN said:
Starlink is a potentially huge asset and liability in a conflict. The U.S. probably has to seriously consider methods of suppressing it locally. There have been a couple of successful academic research efforts that used satellite positions and Doppler changes to create a ~10m accurate navigation system without the use of an account - that is to say, totally passive/noncooeporative satellite navigation. Starlink is a huge piece of infrastructure that potentially anyone can exploit, and the large effort to lock the Russians out only demonstrates how difficult any filtering of friend or foe would be, even assuming the company/Musk felt strongly on a particular usage of the system.
Click to expand...

The simplest solution is for the U.S. to buy its own Starlink, and plan on destroying the civilian constellation with microwave platforms should it be used by an adversary, but it's probably not the cheapest. It can already gate people out of GPS, so having a VLEO/LEO comsat swarm with similar capability is a necessity for USSF, at least if it doesn't want to see the PLA or RF piggybacking on its own commos.

I suspect it's most likely going to be something it'll need to live with, just like FPVs and Mavics, which it has also tended to ignore.
 
Kat Tsun said:
The simplest solution is for the U.S. to buy its own Starlink, and plan on destroying the civilian constellation with microwave platforms should it be used by an adversary, but it's probably not the cheapest. It can already gate people out of GPS, so having a VLEO/LEO comsat swarm with similar capability is a necessity for USSF, at least if it doesn't want to see the PLA or RF piggybacking on its own commos.

I suspect it's most likely going to be something it'll need to live with, just like FPVs and Mavics, which it has also tended to ignore.
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This is hardly simply for legal, economic, and physical reasons. There probably needs to be an EW solution, or alternatively perhaps simply pay the company to organize gaps in coverage that include total shutdowns of all emissions, if that’s something that is technically possible.
 
Josh_TN said:
This is hardly simply for legal, economic, and physical reasons.
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Simple as in direct and technically feasible.

Josh_TN said:
There probably needs to be an EW solution,
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Anything capable of destroying the Starlink constellation without denying the entire orbital band will, by necessity, be electronic in nature. The Russians want a big nuclear powered microwave zapper. Something like CHAMP could probably be adapted on a payload module carried by X-37B and simply zip around disabling entire swathes of the constellation as it flies by.

Josh_TN said:
or alternatively perhaps simply pay the company to organize gaps in coverage that include total shutdowns of all emissions, if that’s something that is technically possible.
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If the U.S. intends to use Starlink this is not a feasible solution. If it doesn't, then there's no reason to keep Starlink up in a major world war.

The only reason you'd keep Starlink up is if you intend to use it yourself, which for now seems to be the plan, as Starshield isn't going to be a Starlink replacement. So "your enemies are using Starlink" is something that will simply need to be assumed. You can't turn off your own communications simply because your opponents are using the same constellation. If you can use Starlink, your opponents can use it, and this is a predictable weakness of relying on a proprietary, corporate-owned system.

Again, the simplest solution is to expand Starshield to 2,000-3,000 satellites and plan to destroy the Starlink network during wartime. It's not the cheapest, nor the most elegant, but it would work. It would probably not be done until an actual war happens.

There's no real technical/soft way to deny Starlink access to individual armies. The whitelist compiled by Ukraine is fine for a known theater but it's very reactive and could accidentally catch allied forces entering the theater unawares since it works by bricking terminals that enter a geofenced area AIUI. I'm not sure that would be practical outside of a very static battlefield. A blacklist would likely be too slow since it would require confirming an individual terminal is in use by the enemy and that's time consuming.

If America finds itself in a situation similar to Russia and Ukraine, the whitelist would be okay, though.
 
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What would happen if a drone was landed (by flying direct or after air-launch) near an underground missile launch door, monitored it and then flew in when it opened?
 

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