Short commercial flights potentially banned over France

TomcatViP

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In a weird move, French lawmakers voted for banning short commercial flights that would be competing with high speed train lines lasting less than 2.5 hours. In effect, it's all journeys under 400Nm (thank you @Michel Van) that are potentially put under the exclusivity of the highly subsidized rail industry.

Interestingly, both the construction business and business jet aviation would be the direct beneficiaries of such decisions. As a result, more high speed rail lines would have to be constructed generating massive releases of carbon and, with the segregation of mass transportation b/w business and economy class, more flights would be flown carrying less passengers with for consequence a drastic drop in emissions efficiency.

Cost wise, taxpayers would now have to take the burden of heavy investments usually done by the private sectors, under market scrutiny in an open process...

For the airline industry that relies on reciprocal access to airspace and rights, it would be like if France semi-exited the ICAO: how would this affect cross border operations? What about Cabotage (the right to operate inside the airspace of another country without having to depart from your own territory) at the very center of European regulation? What will happen from cross border flights less than 400Nm? Would a Swiss national willing to take a bath in Spain will have to drop out of his national carrier plane and ride across France in a train? And what about arriving international flights? Will French have to disembark at Paris Charles de Gaulle to take the train while non-French nationals would transfer to another flight? :eek:

21st century Shadocks just dropped the shovel for mining with Nuclear explosives with a tiny fuze...

7689921_6737304a-4bca-11e8-afc4-0651da0d11a3-1.jpg


To my knowledge, such radical(ist?) approach is unseen yet. But what's would be your take on it? Would you see that as a new trend? An expected move? Something that could change the industry for the better? Or simply the end of your family summer vacations in Southern France?



*And they pumped and pumped [trying to find oil]

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it worked for Paris - Brussel 142.51 Nm or 307,7 km
the SABENA and other fly several times a day between the two cities
until TGV arrived in Brussel every hour and ended this

now 500 Nm or 926 km that odd number, because you outside France Territory.
For French business men wo has to go to Frankfurt am Main it will be a nightmare
First with TGV over Belgium to Germany, here he has to use the DIE BAHN :oops:o_O:eek:
Believe me, We Germans prefer the Autobahn instead of german railway

Missmanagement, Train delays, technical problems, dirty compartment (rolling trashcan),
buying ticket or seat reservation ? welcome into Franz Kafka world !
catering ? i mean they invented CAF a indefinable liquid, that they claim to be Coffee !
dam i just realised the DIE BAHN is run by SHADOCKS...

back to Railway
for French business men this will end, that use more Cars to German or other place in Europe.
That have no proper high speed Railway connection to France...
 
You are right, I mistakenly took a 2.5 hour journey in a high speed train traveling at 300km/h for 500Nm when it is more rigorously 750km which represents in effect 400Nm.

For the indefinable coffee, I can sadly confirm the experience.
 
It’s political theatre apparently... only impacts 3 routes (Orly-Nantes, Orly-Lyon, Orly-Bordeaux) and 4% of domestic air trips.

Flights from CDG are not included and neither are all the routes where there is no high-speed train option <2.5hrs today (e.g. flights to the Côte d’Azur, Alps etc).

 
But it will impact French carriers under the reciprocity principle that is central to ICAO.
If Swiss companies are denied to make legitimate profits by being ordered to leave their share of the market to a French only competing company (rail), you can be sure that Swiss will draw a similar measure on their territory affecting French airlines.

Idem for Spain, Italy, Tombouctou or the USA...

Also most Orly flights are passenger flights that have landed at CDG with passengers transiting by rail (mostly) to take their correspondence at Orly (Orly is the dedicated southern regional airport for Paris). So in effect, that's well all international flights that are potentially affected.
 
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It’s political theatre apparently... only impacts 3 routes (Orly-Nantes, Orly-Lyon, Orly-Bordeaux) and 4% of domestic air trips.

Flights from CDG are not included and neither are all the routes where there is no high-speed train option <2.5hrs today (e.g. flights to the Côte d’Azur, Alps etc).


Having worked at Bordeaux airport (before COVID screwed my job, unfortunately) I can tell, that the decision to cancel the Bordeaux - Paris flight has incensed a lot of people...
 
I recently saw a documentary on the development of the TGV that said the French domestic airlines collapsed once the first high-speed routes were operational. Has there been a resurgence of domestic flights?
 
SNCF prices have gone through the roof. Back in 2006 it was 60 euros nowadays close from 120 for Bordeaux Paris one way one person. Add two ways the wife and the kid... since 2012 we are going... by car.
 
More seriously, I am very concerned about the impacts of this law on Turboprops and future developments (On-demand air Mobility).

Most of the regional air market relies on turboprops and is probably eager to be at the forefront of the introduction of new, said Green, technologies.
IMOHO this law will cut the momentum gained recently in this domain (where Interestingly France was behind most of their local competitors (Germany/Czechia/Slovenia), including Israel).
Airbus has seemingly no serious plans to replace the old ATR platform and disengaged from the Golden nugget it had when acquiring Bombardier.
It also contradicts the recent push for what they named green harvested hydrogen production that would have been first piped down to Turboprops like airframe.

Hence behind France choice, it's the future of subsidized EU R&D in that strategic domain that was sucker punched...
 
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It's very political (b/w the two rounds of regional elections) but the law is now acted, limiting allowed regional flights in France to above an equivalent of 2h30 high speed train route or not under 50% of passengers in transits.

The most hilarious consequence that could turn out is that French nationals and regional travelers stopping in France would get incentives to join flights to CDG from abroad in order for the company to be allowed to fly further inside France.

For example, if you are flying back to France from abroad, it's easy to see you could potentially be pushed to get a flight stopping outside of France for then to be routed via CdG and then to your destination, helping the company in filling the 50% quota.

The complexity of matching inbound and outbound traffic numbers from non Parisian airport promise to be exquisite...

This idiotic and complex law will create something aquin to what was the prohibition (I am not saying that French will be smuggled inside landing gear bays etc... But you get the picture).

Interestingly, Bordeaux Merignac is the only one concerned by the Ban of 2h30.

 
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At last, the European branch of the association of world airports protests in front of the European Court the French ban of short flight competing against the public rail service:

 
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