Santangelo Orsa project......

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys & Girls, here is a "Secret Project" for you, the Orsa; an Italian airliner designed by Gaspare Santangelo. Note the strangely glazed cockpit and the Isotta-Fraschini Delta III engines......

The cutting is from the 8th May 1948 issue of Les Ailes......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Skybolt]

Re: Santangelo Orsa......

Actually wasn't an airliner but a military transport/trainer/radiomeasure aircraft. In late 1946 Ministero dell'Aviazione (then still a separate ministry, only in late 1948 separated in two piecs: Ministero dell'Aviazione Civile and the other fused in Ministry of Defense) issued an RFP (the thing was so important back then that the magazines referred to it as "il Concorso" or "il famoso concorso") asking for a multipurpose military aircraft with the provis that it had to use Isotta Fraschini Delta III Series (a lot of those engines were available from wartime). The aircrafts would have been severly underpowered, but a score of companies decided to participate, some of them with a basic project and one with more powerful engines. Here a list. Basic submissions Breda BP-471; Caproni Ca-191; Santangelo Orsa (private venture); SIAI-Marchetti SM-104; Macchi and Piaggio (I dont have the model number at office...). "Evolved " submissions: Piaggio P-108T2; Fiat G-218; SIAI Marchetti SM-105 (first iteration, with a normal fuselage, the detachable one is later). The winner were Santangelo Orsa and Caproni Ca-191. Neither were built. The BP-471 was built and flown as a private venture with different engines. The RFP was quietly shelved in favour of buying C-119s and Beech C-45s.

 

[Caravellarella]

Re: Santangelo Orsa......

Dear Skybolt, I defer to your superior and all-encompassing knowledge ;D

All best, Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[hesham]

Re: Santangelo Orsa......

My dears,

I think I get the Piaggio design,may be it was P.140.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1949/1949%20-%200867.html

 

[carlo961]

Re: Santangelo Orsa......

Dear Skybolt, I read in old issues of "L'Ala" dated 1947 and 1948, but also (if I rember well) in the book "Trasporti aerei in italia 1945-1960" by Paolo Gianvanni, that the Santangelo Orsa was to be built by Caproni in CAB plant at Ponte San Pietro.
I repute this scenario quite debatable, because Caproni at the time had a his own project, the Ca.191, for the same RFP.

What do you think about it ?

 

[archipeppe]

Re: Santangelo Orsa......

My dears,

I think I get the Piaggio design,may be it was P.140.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1949/1949%20-%200867.html

Did the P 140 was a spin-off of the P 108C with tryclicle landing gear, or did it was a brand new project?

 

[Skybolt]

Re: Santangelo Orsa......

Carlo, it is correct. The idea was to build the Orsa in the CAB factory to save it from closure, to no avail (actually, it was Caproni who offered to do that). As for the little incongruence of having the same group troducing the two winners, nothing was really congruent in the Famous Concorso. Think that the only submission actually built was the Breda's one, and that it contributed to the final demise of Breda Aeronautica.
Peppe, yes and no, it was a derivative, but of the 108-T2. And, Hesham, wasn't the sumbission for the Concorso, one year later. Piaggio proposed the 108-T2 as a "superior category" submission.
Ok, I'll do a post covering all types.

 

[archipeppe]

Re: Santangelo Orsa......

Ok, I'll do a post covering all types.

I will look forward for that....

 

[Skybolt]

Re: Santangelo Orsa......

Just an appetizers, since I forgot to mention: the Piaggio submission was the P-135, not strictly adhering to the Concorso's specs, since it used two Wright Cyclones. The Macchi submission was the MB-312.

 

[hesham]

Re: Santangelo Orsa......

Just an appetizers, since I forgot to mention: the Piaggio submission was the P-135, not strictly adhering to the Concorso's specs, since it used two Wright Cyclones. The Macchi submission was the MB-312.

Oh my God,great find my dear Skybolt,

can you tell us more info about them or drawings ?.

 

[Maveric]

Re: Santangelo Orsa......

Yes, Skybolt please more.

 

[Skybolt]

Re: Santangelo Orsa......

Posting in a separate topic.

 

[zeroc]

Dear Boys & Girls, here is a "Secret Project" for you, the Orsa; an Italian airliner designed by Gaspare Santangelo. Note the strangely glazed cockpit and the Isotta-Fraschini Delta III engines......

The cutting is from the 8th May 1948 issue of Les Ailes......

Terry (Caravellarella)

Based on the magazine image, my usual two cents.
Cheers!

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Nice Zeroc - thanks! Mark