Real or fake

hesham

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Thank you my dear Jemiba.
 

hesham

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Hi,


I think this artist drawing to a Helicopter was familiar,was it a real design or not ?.
 

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archipeppe

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hesham said:
Hi,


I think this artist drawing to a Helicopter was familiar,was it a real design or not ?.

Except of its single rotor (rather than double) it seems quite similiar to the early Kamov helicopters design.
 

Stargazer2006

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archipeppe said:
hesham said:
I think this artist drawing to a Helicopter was familiar,was it a real design or not ?.
Except of its single rotor (rather than double) it seems quite similiar to the early Kamov helicopters design.
I'm surprised this image could even raise eyebrows. OF COURSE it was a real design, the Pitcairn PA-36 Whirlwing.
 

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hesham

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Hi,


that's a suggesting of 1916 for a giant triplane aircraft can launch a fighter instead off
Zeppelin airship,was it a real design or just a hypothetical one ?.
 

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hesham

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hesham

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Triton said:
Artist's impression found on Facebook.

By the way,


my dear PaulMM (Overscan) made a discussing about this picture before.
 

Grey Havoc

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I've taken the liberty: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,25015.0.html
 

hesham

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Hi,


I think this is a hypothetical Russian atomic rocket concept,am I right ?.


https://www.pinterest.com/pin/524528687825090974/
 

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hesham

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Hi,


I can't see well,in a Russian book about Seversky-Republic company,there is a picture
for Alexander Seversky told a speech to a Walt Disney team,behind him some drawings,
one of them was for a six engined aircraft as I guess,what was this ?.


русские крылья америки
 

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The Artist

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Those look like Disney art to me - Storyboards and design treatments done by the Disney artists.
 

Stargazer2006

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The Artist said:
Those look like Disney art to me - Storyboards and design treatments done by the Disney artists.
So what? Disney produced a movie with Seversky, it's only normal that they should put his ideas into cartoon form. Doesn't mean the designs weren't his.

For your information, here's a link to the full movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1iPBvwaIkI
 

The Artist

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What I'm saying is that what you are seeing in the pictures hesham posted shouldn't be taken as any definitive "real" aircraft designs. Big studio animation is a collaborative venture. Granted, Disney (the studio) wanted to, and did, capture the feel of the known aircraft of the conflict, but storyboard art is suppose to be quick and dirty and only convey the story element within that part of the scene. That larger single frame drawing looks, to me, like it is featuring a gag or punch for a scene. It still has the look and feel of a storyboard illustration. An animated short might have only one storyboard artist, or might have a few if the story is to be full of action and lots of quick cuts. A feature length animation project likely has a number of storyboard artists and each has their own style in portraying the scene.

The attached illustrations were selected because they show a progression of design in the big studio animation process. We see the character as drawn by the author of the book series, then we see how the character evolved to his look on the screen. You can see that the character as shown in the storyboard art looks only suggestive of that character, and you see an example of artwork done to develop a gag (in the second movie).

I hope this illustrates why I say the aircraft shown in the pictures hesham posted shouldn't be thought of as actual designs.
 

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Stargazer2006

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I see your point, and as an animation fan I appreciate these documents greatly, thanks.

I don't know if you've taken the time to actually watch "Victory Through Air Power", but if you do, go to 53:30 and see for yourself: the "Long Range Combat Fighter" depicted in blueprint form (and then extensively in animated form up to 55:23) seems to be a lot more than merely an animator's artistic license. From 55:24 to 54:47, then from 1:02:01 to 1:04:00 approximately, you can see a bomber version that is clearly a lot more realistic than your average cartoon airplane at the time! There is little doubt to me that some Republic staff must have worked closely with Disney people to produce these scenes — as much a tool for war propaganda as a marketing ploy from Republic to sell the government its bomber design, or so it seems! To me it's a clear forerunner of the Rainbow with twin tails instead (kind of a competitor of the unbuilt "Bomber Constellation"), straight from Republic Aviation's drawing boards.

Now back to the aircraft behind Seversky in the photo: true, it doesn't look quite as realistic. And true, it's not featured in this movie. But it shares some similarities with Seversky's transatlantic Clipper design, so I would certainly not discard it as fantasy stuff right away.
 

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The Artist

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I have seen that movie, and I agree that in the finished product the artists achieved a truer feel for the actual aircraft than one thinks of for animation, but I'm talking about the drawings in those pictures. We each seem to be seeing what we bring to that one drawing when we look at it. When I look at that one large drawing within the first picture, and more so in hesham's enlargement, I read it as a gag concept study featuring the Gigant. But, when study the details, I see that it is not truly a Gigant. Therefore, I accept that shape as a placeholder for whatever aircraft they would have used in the gag.

Another thing to consider is that if those drawings were the Disney artists' work, they had been done before Seversky gave this talk. We do not know if this photo was taken during his first (or possibly his only) talk with them as a group, or after he had given them a lecture on aircraft then came back to review their work. Therefore, we cannot be sure that these drawings are showing Seversky's influence on the project.
 

hesham

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Hi,

I don't know if this Colditz glide was a real design or just a hypothetical ?.

http://nysi.org.uk/aircraft/canard/seating.htm
 

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colditz_Cock
 

hesham

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Hi,

in my dear Scott's site,he found it in ebay,this Yak-21 aircraft drawing,but of course not related
to known one,can I ask what was it ?,real or hypothetical ?.

http://www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com/blog/?p=1878
 

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borovik

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Lark has already answered this question (in 2008))
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,275.msg26452.html#msg26452 - Reply#96
 

hesham

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borovik said:
Lark has already answered this question (in 2008))
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,275.msg26452.html#msg26452 - Reply#96
Oh yes,I don't remember it,sorry.
 

hesham

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Hi,

in a site,which speaks about aircraft in movies and TV,but it has some aircraft actually
existed,there is a drawing to an aircraft for US Army in 1918,I don't know it it was a real
or just hypothetical one ?.

http://impdb.org/index.php?title=Victory_Through_Air_Power
 

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Stargazer2006

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hesham said:
in a site,which speaks about aircraft in movies and TV
hesham, it's not just a page with odds and ends from various films. This particular page is entirely concerned with Alexander de Seversky's Victory Through Air Power, the movie he did with Disney in 1943 and which we've recently discussed in another topic. ALL IMAGES in that page are screenshots from that movie, and if you haven't yet watched it, I warmly recommend it.

Before asking such a question, perhaps you ought to read more carefully the site's disclaimer about the contents, at the beginning of the page:

This is an animated film. The aircraft shown in it are therefore not actual aircraft, however, where a reasonable depiction of an actual aircraft has been created, it has been identified as best as possible.
Of course it is still possible that the drawing represents an as-yet unidentified project, but given the high level of research in the identification of all the other types in the page, I have my doubts that it is little more than an imaginary type, embodying the various features from most biplanes of that time.
 

hesham

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OK Skyblazer,

I was just carious if this drawing to a real aircraft,but it's not.
 

hesham

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My dear Artist,

nice find at first,and I think that,I spoke about three of them before,and they were
from Flightglobal.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4274.msg33732.html#msg33732
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3564.0.html
 

The Artist

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Fair enough. The search function here is tricky enough when searching for topics, but searching for images is a completely different animal.
 

hesham

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The Artist said:
Fair enough. The search function here is tricky enough when searching for topics, but searching for images is a completely different animal.
You are right my dear,and your pictures are clearer than Flightglobal,thanks.
 

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https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=qZhdxqqWu4gC&pg=PA82&dq=Turkey+plane&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjsttqzjcDJAhVGWxoKHXyqBn8Q6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=Turkey%20plane&f=false

Fake ? It sounds like a joke for Thanksgiving 1931 , but who knows ...
 

hesham

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My dear Richard,

please search here;
http://www.tuncay-deniz.com/ENGLISH/english.html
 

Stargazer2006

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richard said:
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=qZhdxqqWu4gC&pg=PA82&dq=Turkey+plane&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjsttqzjcDJAhVGWxoKHXyqBn8Q6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=Turkey%20plane&f=false

Fake ? It sounds like a joke for Thanksgiving 1931 , but who knows ...
I'm pretty sure we discussed this aircraft a while ago in another topic.
 
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