Question about Belgium selection for Mirage 5

[Michel Van]

in 1967/68 Belgium look for replacement for there F-84F

after the Book "Belgian Military Aviation 1945-1977" by Paul A.Jackson (Midland pub)
they studied next to Mirage 5
A-4 Skyhawk and Saab J35 Dragen


Saab J35 Draken it's Aircraft from 1955, Is this type error in the Book and that was a Saab J37 Viggen in the selection ?


got someone more info on that ?

 

[gral_rj]

They were still building Drakens in the late 60's; as a matter of fact, the Royal Danish Air Force placed orders for Drakens in 1968, if I understood the following right: http://stall.dk/rdaf/draken/draken.html

 

[martinbayer]

Plus, the Skyhawk flew first in 1954, making it the same vintage as the Draken, and was subsonic to boot. I would guess that Belgium was looking for an airframe with an established operational track record, and while the Mirage 5 was a new, but less complex variant of the proven Mirage III that had its debut in 1956, the Viggen was brand new in 1967.

Martin

 

[pathology_doc]

Depending on what you're using them for, the A-4 might actually be a pretty good replacement for an F-84F. It all depends on whether you want and/or are willing/able to pay for Mach 2 performance.

On general principles, if you are a minor NATO player and there's plenty of countries between you and the invading Red hordes, the Yanks, Brits, Germans and French are going to do most of the heavy-lift air superiority work; and if they fail, nothing much is going to avail you whatever you have. Your air force's major mission is likely going to be battlefield interdiction and troop support with a bit of helicopter killing on the side, plus maybe the odd Warsaw Pact strike aircraft that's lost its fighter support and is having a Fairey Battle moment.

 

[Michel Van]

one selection criterion was the Aircraft had to be license-built by SABCA in Belgium.

how far bribery by Belgium politicians influence the selection of Mirage 5, is unknown
a bad example of bribery by Belgium politicians was the Agusta Affaire
Belgium Air-force wanted MBB Bo 105, but get inefficient Agusta A109
and the Belgian Socialists politicians over 50 million Belgian francs (1,13 Million Euro)

 

[pathology_doc]

If all-weather interception wasn't on the menu, they probably got the best aircraft. This depends on a relative-merits assessment, of course, and fans of various options have various ways of putting their 'baby' up to the top of the list, but if I wasn't after a full all-weather intercept package, money wasn't an object, and I was offered the A-4 vs. the Mirage 5? I'd be picking the Mirage myself. Then there's that whole "Neutral Sweden" bit, and whether they'd be happy to support their product in a shooting war they weren't part of, though I'd imagine Denmark and Austria both found ways around that problem (and I suspect it'd be difficult to see Sweden NOT become involved in an all-out Soviet Bloc assault on Western Europe, if only from the viewpoint of nailing Soviet a/c taking shortcuts over their territory).

 

[Michel Van]

The Belgium Air-Force needed 63 Jet-Fighters and 27 reconnaissance version and 16 Two-seat trainer version of same Aircraft

here is something odd
the A-4 Skyhawk is a carrier-capable ground-attack aircraft
My guess they consider A-4 as low cost alternative,
but i get sneaking suspicion this call for tender was made, so only Dassault get the contract

comparison:
Dassault Mirage 5 (build with US avionics by SABCA)
Maximum speed: Mach 2.2
Combat radius: 1250 km
Guns: 2× 30 mm DEFA 552 cannons with 125 rounds per gun
Missiles: 2× AIM-9 Sidewinders
Powerplant: 1 × SNECMA Atar 09C turbojet (was build by FN Herstal)

SAAB 35 Draken
Maximum speed: Mach 2+
Combat radius: 1120 km
Guns: 2x 30 mm M-55 ADEN cannon with 90 rounds each
Missiles: 2x AIM-9 Sidewinder (in sweden as Rb 24)
Powerplant: 1 × Volvo Flygmotor RM 6C afterburning turbojet (that a licensed Rolls-Royce Avon)

Douglas A-4 Skyhawk
Maximum speed: 1077 km/h
Combat radius: 1158 km
Guns:2× 20 mm Colt Mk 12 cannon, 100 rounds each
Missiles: 4× AIM-9 Sidewinder
Powerplant: 1 × Pratt & Whitney J52-P8A turbojet,

 

[Michel Van]

After this Homepage http://www.ailes-militaires-belges.be/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=298&Itemid=495&lang=fr
this was the selection:

Dassault Mirage V
Lockheed F-104S (that must be the Aeritalia F-104S)
Northrop F-5
Saab 35 Draken

and no Douglas A-4 Skyhawk
Can someone confirm this information ?

 

[valken]

The A4 was a candidate.
There was a team of Belgian pilots send out to the US to evaluate the aircraft. One aircraft was even painted in Belgian colours.
An aircraft forgotten was the Jaguar. The initial order was for 106 aircraft less an intended option for 18 Jaguars!

The Mirage order was a political buy. The aircraft never fullfilled its intended roles.