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Pronouncing "Apache"

Tophe

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Thanks Stargazer for the psychological assistance... ;)

Uh, this was not the main point, but could someone tells me if Apache is prounounced Apatshee or Apash? ???
(The article says the AH-63A would have been named Wanatchee and I don't understand either the pronunciation difference with Wanachee and Wanatshee... Sorry, please may a US or UK member explain?)
 

robunos

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could someone tells me if Apache is prounounced Apatshee or Apash?

I've always pronounced it

a-PAT-chee...

cheers,
Robin.
 

Stargazer2006

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Tophe, I know I once had the same problem as you, being French like you! (you ARE French, aren't you?)

Many American indian tribes have the final "e" pronounced, as in "Tarhe" (TAR-hee), "Osage" (oh-SAH-gee), "Apache" (ah-PAH-chee), "Comanche" (co-MON-chee) or "Mojave" (mo-HA-vee). However, in "Cheyenne", "Ute" or "Seminole" the final "e" is silent.

Indian tribes are kind of difficult, partly because the names either come from the native languages or from the French language (a large part of the US once was French!). For instance, "Sioux" is pronounced like "Sue" (SOO) and "Chinook" is NOT pronounced like "China" (shi-NOOK)!

This happens also with some words of foreign origin, like "vigilante" (vi-jill-ANT-ee) (different from "vigilant"), "coupe" (KOO-pey) or "guardian" (GARD-yen)... Some Greek gods are also difficult: "Hercules" (HER-cue-leez), "Nike" (NIGH-key)...

Hope this helps a bit...
 

Tophe

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This helps a lot, thanks a lot (I am French also)... Like Mickey and Lucky Luke, our background is US with foreign pronunciation, not explained in English course (when I was a pupil, long ago)...
Sorry this is far from Secret Projects, while writing/reading Wanatchee helicopter is part of it somehow... ;)
 

Orionblamblam

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Stargazer2006 said:
Indian tribes are kind of difficult...

It's a problem with the English language as a whole. After the war of Amrican Independence, Noah Webster tried to ge tthe new US to accept a revised spelling of the English language to something much more rational. One of his motivations was to distinguish "American" from "English..." Americans had distinguished themselves from the English in their determination for liberty and form of government, so doing so in language made some sense as well. He was partially successful... we've done away with archaic spelings such as "colour" and "armour" and "metre" in favor of "color" and "armor" and "meter," but completely altering a language is a massive task and one Webster wasn't able to pull off. Thus we're still saddled with such ridiculous throwbacks as "through" ("thru" is adequate), "knight" and "knife" ("nyt" and "nyf" would be better).

English is a fabulously flexible language, able to easily assimilate words and phrases from other languages. Unlike some languages, nowhere in the Englsih-speaking world does there seem to be a drive to maintain the "purity" of the language; there are no governmental agencies that determine that English words should replace "foreign" words (as is the case in, I believe, France and Iceland).

As James Nicoll said: "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

But in doing so, the English language has picked up some truly bizarre spellings that just don't make sense. A lot of "Indian" words and names have had this result.
 

Lauge

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Orionblamblam said:
.....Englsih-speaking......

Englsih ? That'll be one of them there "importet" words then ? ;)

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg
 

Retrofit

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Orionblamblam said:
pometablava said:
Le Fana is Unbuilt Project Lover's last great magazine alive...

Awww. :mad:

Please Orionblamblam, no comparison.
Your APR goes far more in the details than a magazine ;D :D!
 

SlickDriver

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robunos said:
"Osage" (oh-SAH-gee)

thanks for that, I always thought it was o-SAGE !! DOH! :-[

cheers,
Robin.

I learned to fly on the TH-55 and we called it o-SAGE not oh-SAH-gee.

Each Indian tribe has a different language.
 

Stargazer2006

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Gasp... :-X

Seems like I got this one wrong for a long time... :'(
Shows how pathetic it is to declare oneself bilingual! ::)
 
J

joncarrfarrelly

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Tophe said:
Thanks Stargazer for the psychological assistance... ;)

Uh, this was not the main point, but could someone tells me if Apache is prounounced Apatshee or Apash? ???
(The article says the AH-63A would have been named Wanatchee and I don't understand either the pronunciation difference with Wanachee and Wanatshee... Sorry, please may a US or UK member explain?)
Actually I think you are looking for Wenatchee pronounced (wĕ·năt′·chē), in other words pretty much like it is spelled.
BTW the town of Wenatchee, Washington is 124 miles from where I'm sitting. :)
 

SlickDriver

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Stargazer2006 said:
Gasp... :-X

Seems like I got this one wrong for a long time... :'(
Shows how pathetic it is to declare oneself bilingual! ::)

Or we could have just been saying wrong all the time ;)

The Army and Americans mangle words all the time.

Here in California there is a city name Vallejo - the locals say it va-LAY-ho, the way to say it is of course va-YEH-jo. We also have a governor that can't pronounce the name of the state either ::)
 

Stargazer2006

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Probably, but the LEH/YEH distinction is a problem even in Spain... depending whether you are from Madrid or Barcelone...
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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I found learning French relatively straightforward - in many respects easier than German (I only did 1 year of German). French seems rather more consistent than English.

Not that my spoken French is much use now 19 years later, but I can still read a French language aircraft book reasonably well.
 

Stargazer2006

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Being a language teacher by training (though no longer in daily practice), I can assure you that French and English are two very complicated languages! They don't look so... because in both cases it seems relatively easy to babble a few sentences and get understood. But when you get down to the core of it, to the hows and whys, you find that they are both teeming with exceptions, inconsistencies, irregular forms, oddities and the likes...

German is exactly the opposite. It seems difficult at first, and it's pretty tough to get some sentences right at first because of the peculiar order of the words, the genres (masculine/feminine/neutral) and the declinations (nominative/accusative/dative/genitive), but once you get the jist of it, it is extremely logical and practically devoid of any exception. The phonetics of German is pretty remarkable. Once you know how each letter is pronounce, you can get ANY word right! French and (especially) English are a phonetic nightmare!

And yet I love the English language, I love my language, and I don't care much for German despite the 6 years I did at school... which brings us to my conclusion on the subject for today: learning a language is first and foremost a question of necessity... but it helps a GREAT deal if there is a sense of affinity...
 

Andreas Parsch

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I looked into this topic, because I sometimes also have mispronounced english words, especially those of non-english origin. Seems that I was correct with "Apache", but wrong with "Osage" (if "oh-SAH-gee" is indeed correct) ;) . My "favorite" :p area of problems is the "...age" suffix: E.g. for years I thought that "foliage" was pronounced to rhyme with "fuselage", because I only ever read the word, and didn't bother to look up the pronounciation.

Anyway...
Stargazer2006 said:
German is exactly the opposite. It seems difficult at first, and it's pretty tough to get some sentences right at first because of the peculiar order of the words, the genres (masculine/feminine/neutral) and the declinations (nominative/accusative/dative/genitive), but once you get the jist of it, it is extremely logical and practically devoid of any exception.
... I beg you pardon?! ;D

As a native German, I would never, ever call my first language "extremely logical and practically devoid of any exception" ::) ... unless you describe things like the almost completely random assignment of the three(!) grammatical genders to nouns as "extremely logical", and the abundance of irregular verbs, plural forms, etc. as "devoid of any exception" ;D.

The phonetics of German is pretty remarkable. Once you know how each letter is pronounce, you can get ANY word right! French and (especially) English are a phonetic nightmare!
Granted. German pronounciation is relatively simple, but nowhere as trivial like e.g. Italian or Spanish.

I'm definitely glad that I will never have to learn German as a foreign language :D!!
 

AeroFranz

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Stargazer2006 said:
French and (especially) English are a phonetic nightmare!

The words seau, sceaux, sot, and saut are pronounced the same in French :eek: enough said! ;D
 

starviking

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overscan said:
I found learning French relatively straightforward - in many respects easier than German (I only did 1 year of German). French seems rather more consistent than English.

Not that my spoken French is much use now 19 years later, but I can still read a French language aircraft book reasonably well.

I found French much more easy to learn than German - despite English being derived from German.

Then again, we studied French in both primary and secondary school. German was just an extra Uni course for me.
 

MIRAGE 4000

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You dont like "Wanatchee" ????? ??? ::) ??? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
in French it's like "APACH" (in french when we heard the english it sounds like apacheeeeeeee )

AH-63 ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D
 
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