Project Greenglow


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Looking up about BAC's MUSTARD project has reminded me of Project Greenglow (its in the JBIS Space Chronicle edition looking at UK Spaceplanes).

What are people's views on Greenglow?
What Greenglow project? BAe Systems antigravity studies you mean? It's easy to check out - if Podkletnov still pays his checks, we have something to think about.
from Nick Cook's The Hunt for Zero Point

a).British Aerospace's concept of an advanced fighter interceptor, powered by an anti-gravity lift engine.
b).Another British Aerospace design for a heavy-lift anti-gravity vehicle.

Both images via BAE Systems


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Anybody think this will ever actually pan out? ;D At least in the white world that is, the black world is another question. Also I swear I remember anti-gravity research being a big thing in the aviation news world during the early 50s than it disappeared.
Indeed, possibly because it didn't work?

I can't really imagine where BAE were going with this unless they were sitting on a brand new discovery in physics.
John21 said:
Anybody think this will ever actually pan out? ;D At least in the white world that is, the black world is another question. Also I swear I remember anti-gravity research being a big thing in the aviation news world during the early 50s than it disappeared.

I can imagine two different scenarios:

1) As Overscan points out: The various research establishments looking into this come to the conclusion, that there's no realistic way this could work, unless someone, somewhere, at some time, radically rethinks the laws of physics as we understand them.


2) One or more of the various research establishments come to the conclusion that this just might be made to work (please not that I didn't say "was made to work", only that maybe.....). In which case I would think it probable, considering the potential implications, that the research was quickly and quietly transferred to the "black world".

Having said that, my personal conclusion, considering the evidence in the unclassified world, is that we're dealing with option 1). Sadly..... :-\

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
I gotta go with 1) too Lauge.

There was a bit of a buzz about 'gravity modification' in the early 2000's - but the apparently simple experiments behind that buzz don't seem to be replicable. Shades of 'Cold Fusion', sadly.
relativity states that where there is energy, there is gravity, so... somebody got the bright idea of putting it in an absolute zero environment. and with eager anticipation, it ended up with a facepalm :D
Funny thing...

Funny thing is that wing-plan has a remarkable resemblance to the flapless UAV test article in...,7707.0.html


My take on magnetogravitics is that, even if real effect, progress will probably need ambient-temperature superconductors. Wild card is widget like laser or cavity magnetron, but...


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This risks going way off-topic but if gravity can be annulled as easily as Podkletnov thinks then general relativity is just plain wrong, despite ninety-odd years of successful tests. (Amongst other things, the Stanford Gravity Probe B recently made a successful direct test of Einstein's prediction that mass curves spacetime.)

General relativity does allow "exotic matter", which (unlike anti-matter) is gravitationally repulsive. But there seem to be good (quantum) reasons for thinking exotic matter either cannot exist at all or can exist for only vanishingly short periods of time. A full reconciliation of relativity and quantum theory has yet to be achieved but the prospects for anti-gravity are looking poor. See H. Bondi, "Negative Mass in General Relativity", Reviews of Modern Physics, Vol. 29, No. 3, July 1957, pp. 423ff, archived at:

Anyway, if general relativity is even remotely correct, gravitation is tied up with the structure of spacetime itself – in a nutshell, if you can create enough exotic matter (a bit like saying "First catch your unicorn …" I hasten to add), you've actually got what it takes for time travel, never mind anti-gravity. See M. Morris, K. Thorne, and U. Yurtsever, "Wormholes, Time Machines, and the Weak Energy Condition", Physical Review, Vol. 61, No. 13, September 1988, pp. 1446–49, archived at:

A few years ago, a guy called Ronald Mallett announced he was trying to build a lab-scale machine for sending information into the past but I have ordered myself a large bag of incredulity on this one. See Ken Olum and Allen Everett, "Can a Circulating Light Beam Produce a Time Machine? ", Foundations of Physics Letters, Vol. 18, No. 4, August 2005, pp. 379–385, pre-print archived at:

Please note: all these guys are physicists and not UFO-fanciers, Vril-sniffers or wild-eyed seekers after the might and magic of lost Atlantis, tra-la. (And no, I don't believe in time travel either. Or UFO's. Or Atlantis.)

Getting closer to the topic, I wonder why BAE would go to the trouble of even producing drawings of projects based around a power-plant whose mass, dimensions and energy-consumption have got to be speculative, (to put it mildly).
It smells like disinformation. If the "interceptor" uses anti-gravity for lift and propulsion, why would it be shaped for aerodynamic lift, have intakes and exhaust for conventional engines, and a "lift fan"* on the bottom as illustrated? Even the huge lifter illustration looks like a dirigible....

*previously referred to as "thruster" hahaha.....
I think 'disinformation' might be a polite way to describe the above designs but just playing along for a minute:
i) Streamlining / provision for aerodynamic lift might make sense even if anti-gravity was achieved - presumably even a totally weightless aircraft would still suffer air-resistance, and overcoming that would still consume power. Likewise, maybe a little extra aerodynamic lift wouldn't hurt. In any case, Podkletnov never claimed to offer 100% weight-reduction – more like 2% if I remember rightly.
ii) Conventional jets (even a lift-fan if there is one) might be retained as back-up if the anti-gravity was prone to go off-line at awkward moments.
(None of which explains why the 'Lifter' is built like a whale with lumbago.)
Pardon my asking but do we know if either design actually emanates from anyone linked to a BAE design-team? (The brochure-cover in particular looks a bit … well, home-made.)
Depends. You'd be within your rights completing it with: "Matter-induced spacetime curvatures can act as if they generate attractive or repulsive forces, depending on the kind of matter that induces them". (See the Bondi paper above.)
At the risk of going even further off-topic, whether or not relativity forbids gravitational repulsion depends very much on which bits of general relativity you choose and which other constraints you build in. Suppose you add on the weak energy condition - that basically rules out exotic matter and is very unfriendly to gravitational repulsion, but it's an add-on to relativity just the same.
Point being: general relativity on its own doesn't necessarily forbid anti-gravity - however it does forbid gravity-reduction on the Podkletnov model.
(Where is Podkletnov anyhow?)
;D ;) ;D ;)
... BAE (and Boeing) should:
^ Invest in an exotic-matter generator? (Bring on the Casimir effect.)
^ Ask Podkletnov to return any money they sent him?
^ Subscribe to 'Physical Review'?
^ Ask their uncle Wingknut for advice?
Anyway, I'd have thought BAE and Boeing would look further afield than just Podkletnov's work. Even if Podkletnov gravity-reduction is a no-go, the possibility of exotic matter is still being debated, just as it was when Greenglow was first floated. (Although actually making any exotic matter in the lab. has always looked like a tall order even if the stuff is theoretically possible.)
Podkletnov's work did not pan out and has not been replicated, hence the falling off in interest after the first flush of enthusiasm.
The cause of the apparent anomaly in the results using spinning superconductors was identified, and no antigravity was found. Otherwise he'd have a Nobel prize by now.
As for physics: things are not as simple as some here suggest: perhaps you guys have heard of the dark matter and dark energy concepts astrophysicists have come up with to account for the missing mass, that should be there if Einstein was right. Einstein himself had a bit of a problem with his theory, and had to come up with the famed cosmological constant to make his equasions click. Whatever you call them, these forms of matter/energy, if real, might be related to anti-gravity, one way or another. In short, I wouldn't dump anti-gravity in the lunatic fringe bin; as somebody said before, a unified quantum theory of gravity has yet to be formed to attempt a comprehensive description of the universe.
As for Podkletnov, perhaps he wasn't entirely wrong: some years ago a group of Japanese scientists conducted experiments with fast-rotating gyros and guess what, at a certain speed(10 000 rpm or so) they recorded weight reduction( if anybody's interested, I'll try to dig up the source with specific data).
As for 'Greenglow', I don't suppose that the pinchpennies at BAE would throw money into something that didn't promise any practical benefits. And if it did, the breakthrough technology that the project was about, might have gone black, so that now the public doesn't even know the project codename. This, of course, is speculation, but e.g. back in the forties, how many people heard of project 'Manhattan'?
The July 1957 issue of Mechanix Illustrated had an article titled Spaceship That Conquers Gravity. An accompanying illustrations shows a circular craft with a green glow around it. Reference is made to Wilbur Smith of Canada who was in charge of Project Magnet.

The June 1957 issue of Mechanix Illustrated has an article titled Anti-Gravity: Power of the Future. It mentions electro-gravitics which is the concept behind the Lifters. The Japanese have built rather large lifters but further development has not occurred. The concept goes back to the 1920s with T. Townsend Brown who discovered the effect.
^it's electromagnetism that directs air molecules downward...

^as for space-time curvature influenced by gravity(energy, matter, etc.), it might be possible to "counter" by harnessing the "rebound". people might be familiar with gravitational waves though some of it is... subatomic
Foxglove said:
........some years ago a group of Japanese scientists conducted experiments with fast-rotating gyros and guess what, at a certain speed(10 000 rpm or so) they recorded weight reduction( if anybody's interested, I'll try to dig up the source with specific data).

Please do.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Yes, there was a measurable effect in Podkletnov's work, but it was not caused by antigravity as be beleived (it was actually down to how the test equipment was being affected by the magnetic field IRC). I talked to someone at NASA working on it and they were satisfied it was not worth pursuing.

Podkletnov was working with some Japanese researchers in 1996, and that's probably what you're remembering. It did not go anywhere.

While dark energy might help (one day...), it has nothing to do with Podkletnov's work.
See also Michael de Podesta and Martyn Bull, 'Alternative explanation of "gravitational screening" experiments', 'Physica C: Superconductivity', Volume 253, Issues 1-2, 20th October 1995, pages 199-200. De Podesta and Bull claim Podkletnov's results can be explained away once proper correction is made for buoyancy effects.
What about physicist Ning Li? She did work with a gravity shielding device.

here is the Greenglow.


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It strikes me that most magical technologies would also be doom... It you can stop gravity with a reasonable energy source - why not interfere with other forces?

While the Americans were mobilizing their whole armament, there occurred the really interesting event of the war. It so happened that an international society of scientific workers was meeting in England at Plymouth, and a young Chinese physicist had expressed his desire to make a report to a select committee. As he had been experimenting to find means for the utilization of subatomic energy by the annihilation of matter, it was with some excitement that, according to instruction, the forty international representatives travelled to the north coast of Devon and met upon the bare headland called Hartland Point.

It was a bright morning after rain. Eleven miles to the north-west, the cliffs of Lundy Island displayed their markings with unusual detail. Sea-birds wheeled about the heads of the party as they seated themselves on their raincoats in a cluster upon the rabbit-cropped turf.

They were a remarkable company, each one of them a unique person, yet characterized to some extent by his particular national type. And all were distinctively "scientists" of the period. Formerly this would have implied a rather uncritical leaning toward materialism, and an affectation of cynicism; but by now it was fashionable to profess an equally uncritical belief that all natural phenomena were manifestations of the cosmic mind. In both periods, when a man passed beyond the sphere of his own serious scientific work he chose his beliefs irresponsibly, according to his taste, much as he chose his recreation or his food.

Of the individuals present we may single out one or two for notice. The German, an anthropologist, and a product of the long-established cult of physical and mental health, sought to display in his own athletic person the characters proper to Nordic man. The Frenchman, an old but still sparkling psychologist, whose queer hobby was the collecting of weapons, ancient and modern, regarded the proceedings with kindly cynicism. The Englishman, one of the few remaining intellectuals of his race, compensated for the severe study of physics by a scarcely less devoted research into the history of English expletives and slang, delighting to treat his colleagues to the fruits of his toil. The West African president of the Society was a biologist, famous for his interbreeding of man and ape.

When all were settled, the President explained the purpose of the meeting. The utilization of subatomic energy had indeed been achieved, and they were to be given a demonstration.

The young Mongol stood up, and produced from a case an instrument rather like the old-fashioned rifle. Displaying this object, he spoke as follows, with that quaintly stilted formality which had once been characteristic of all educated Chinese: "Before describing the details of my rather delicate process, I will illustrate its importance by showing what can be done with the finished product. Not only can I initiate the annihilation of matter, but also I can do so at a distance and in a precise direction. Moreover, I can inhibit the process. As a means of destruction, my instrument is perfect. As a source of power for the constructive work of mankind, it has unlimited potentiality. Gentlemen, this is a great moment in the history of Man. I am about to render into the hands of organized intelligence the means to stop for ever man's internecine brawls. Henceforth this great Society, of which you are the elite, will beneficently rule the planet. With this little instrument you will stop the ridiculous war; and with another, which I shall soon perfect, you will dispense unlimited industrial power wherever you consider it needed. Gentlemen, with the aid of this handy instrument which I have the honour to demonstrate, you are able to become absolute masters of this planet."

Here the representative of England muttered an archaism whose significance was known only to himself, "Gawd 'elp us!" In the minds of some of those foreigners who were not physicists this quaint expression was taken to be a technical word having some connexion with the new source of energy.

The Mongol continued. Turning towards Lundy, he said, "That island is no longer inhabited, and as it is something of a danger to shipping, I will remove it." So saying he aimed his instrument at the distant cliff, but continued speaking. "This trigger will stimulate the ultimate positive and negative charges which constitute the atoms at a certain point on the rock face to annihilate each other. These stimulated atoms will infect their neighbours, and so on indefinitely. This second trigger, however, will stop the actual annihilation. Were I to refrain from using it, the process would indeed continue indefinitely, perhaps until the whole of the planet had disintegrated."

There was an anxious movement among the spectators, but the young man took careful aim, and pressed the two triggers in quick succession. No sound from the instrument. No visible effect upon the smiling face of the island. Laughter began to gurgle from the Englishman, but ceased. For a dazzling point of light appeared on the remote cliff. It increased in size and brilliance, till all eyes were blinded in the effort to continue watching. It lit up the under parts of the clouds and blotted out the sun-cast shadows of gorse bushes beside the spectators. The whole end of the island facing the mainland was now an intolerable scorching sun. Presently, however, its fury was veiled in clouds of steam from the boiling sea. Then suddenly the whole island, three miles of solid granite, leaped asunder; so that a covey of great rocks soared heavenward, and beneath them swelled more slowly a gigantic mushroom of steam and debris. Then the sound arrived. All hands were clapped to ears, while eyes still strained to watch the bay, pocked white with the hail of rocks. Meanwhile a great wall of sea advanced from the centre of turmoil. This was seen to engulf a coasting vessel, and pass on toward Bideford and Barnstaple.

The spectators leaped to their feet and clamoured, while the young author of this fury watched the spectacle with exultation, and some surprise at the magnitude of these mere after-effects of his process.

The meeting was now adjourned to a neighbouring chapel to hear the report of the research. As the representatives were filing through the door it was observed that the steam and smoke had cleared, and that open sea extended where had been Lundy. Within the chapel, the great Bible was decorously removed and the windows thrown open, to dispel somewhat the odour of sanctity. For though the early and spiritistic interpretations of relativity and the quantum theory had by now accustomed men of science to pay their respects to the religions, many of them were still liable to a certain asphyxia when they were actually within the precincts of sanctity. When the scientists had settled themselves upon the archaic and unyielding benches, the President explained that the chapel authorities had kindly permitted this meeting because they realized that, since men of science had gradually discovered the spiritual foundation of physics, science and religion must henceforth be close allies. Moreover the purpose of this meeting was to discuss one of those supreme mysteries which it was the glory of science to discover and religion to transfigure. The President then complimented the young dispenser of power upon his triumph, and called upon him to address the meeting.

At this point, however, the aged representative of France intervened, and was granted a hearing. Born almost a hundred and forty years earlier, and preserved more by native intensity of spirit than by the artifices of the regenerator, this ancient seemed to speak out of a remote and wiser epoch. For in a declining civilization it is often the old who see furthest and see with youngest eyes. He concluded a rather long, rhetorical, yet closely reasoned speech as follows: "No doubt we are the intelligence of the planet; and because of our consecration to our calling, no doubt we are comparatively honest. But alas, even we are human. We make little mistakes now and then, and commit little indiscretions. The possession of such power as is offered us would not bring peace. On the contrary it would perpetuate our national hates. It would throw the world into confusion. It would undermine our own integrity, and turn us into tyrants. Moreover it would ruin science. And,--well, when at last through some little error the world got blown up, the disaster would not be regrettable. I know that Europe is almost certainly about to be destroyed by those vigorous but rather spoilt children across the Atlantic. But distressing as this must be, the alternative is far worse. No, Sir! Your very wonderful toy would be a gift fit for developed minds; but for us, who are still barbarians,--no, it must not be. And so, with deep regret I beg you to destroy your handiwork, and, if it were possible, your memory of your marvellous research. But above all breathe no word of your process to us, or to any man."

The German then protested that to refuse would be cowardly. He briefly described his vision of a world organized under organized science, and inspired by a scientifically organized religious dogma. "Surely," he said, "to refuse were to refuse the gift of God, of that God whose presence in the humblest quantum we have so recently and so surprisingly revealed." Other speakers followed, for and against; but it soon grew clear that wisdom would prevail. Men of science were by now definitely cosmopolitan in sentiment. Indeed so far were they from nationalism, that on this occasion the representative of America had urged acceptance of the weapon, although it would be used against his own countrymen.

Finally, however, and actually by a unanimous vote, the meeting, while recording its deep respect for the Chinese scientist, requested, nay ordered, that the instrument and all account of it should be destroyed.

The young man rose, drew his handiwork from its case, and fingered it. So long did he remain thus standing in silence with eyes fixed on the instrument, that the meeting became restless. At last, however, he spoke. "I shall abide by the decision of the meeting. Well, it is hard to destroy the fruit of ten years' work, and such fruit, too. I expected to have the gratitude of mankind; but instead I am an outcast." Once more he paused. Gazing out of the window, he now drew from his pocket a field-glass, and studied the western sky. "Yes, they are American. Gentlemen, the American air fleet approaches."

The company leapt to its feet and crowded to the windows. High in the west a sparse line of dots stretched indefinitely into the north and the south. Said the Englishman, "For God's sake use your damned tool once more, or England's done. They must have smashed our fellows over the Atlantic."

The Chinese scientist turned his eyes on the President. There was a general cry of "Stop them." Only the Frenchman protested. The representative of the United States raised his voice and said, "They are my people, I have friends up there in the sky. My own boy is probably there. But they're mad. They want to do something hideous. They're in the lynching mood. Stop them." The Mongol still gazed at the President, who nodded. The Frenchman broke down in senile tears. Then the young man, leaning upon the window sill, took careful aim at each black dot in turn. One by one, each became a blinding star, then vanished. In the chapel, a long silence. Then whispers; and glances at the Chinaman, expressive of anxiety and dislike.

There followed a hurried ceremony in a neighbouring field. A fire was lit. The instrument and the no less murderous manuscript were burnt. And then the grave young Mongol, having insisted on shaking hands all round, said, "With my secret alive in me, I must not live. Some day a more worthy race will re-discover it, but today I am a danger to the planet. And so I, who have foolishly ignored that I live among savages, help myself now by the ancient wisdom to pass hence." So saying, he fell dead.
coanda said:
Now we seem to have tracked down the Higgs Boson, we might have a new way forward on this front?

That would be fun, BUT judging by the size of and energy requirements of the kit used to tentatively identify the fleeting existence of a higgs boson*..... I'd say these kind of toys are not meant for us to play with (well not in my lifetime anyway :( )

*or are there 2 types of higgs now?

merry christmas
What I want to know is if green glow as just a random code-word and if not how they knew the glow of the tech would be green?
that famous Nick Cook article (JDW June 10, 1995)


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John21 said:
What I want to know is if green glow as just a random code-word and if not how they knew the glow of the tech would be green?

Man, what the hell was I saying back then?

Anyway, does anyone here think that anti-gravity/Electro-gravitics panned out into real hardware, but that it was filed away for the long term as to not upset the status quo? Basically, what would Russia or China do if they know they have NO DEFENCE against platforms with the speed, maneuverability and acceleration they are said to possess?

Hypersonics, Stealth, space based weapons...etc. Russia and China Had/Have/are developing equiviants, and they can be countered but what could they do against technology that is supposedly "impossible"?
No. If we had such game-change tech, we'd surely be using it.
TomS said:
No. If we had such game-change tech, we'd surely be using it.

I don't know about that. If we came up with something that spectacular, somebody would have to assume that its mere existence would spur other countries to pursue the same technology, and then an arms race would follow.
As much stuff as DARPA dreams up, there must be several times where they just threw the results in a vault and decided not to talk about fight club.
flateric said:
that famous Nick Cook article (JDW June 10, 1995)
Funny, I was reading this article a couple of weeks ago. I also read it when it was published and at the time I was intrigued and tantalised by the BAe heavy lift concept drawing. At the time I naively thought the cut away was showing a glimpse of an anti-gravity engine

years later I read some laughable theories on a mythical triangular craft TR-3B. google if you like, but it is completely without evidence and therefore in the same category as religion, the general theme was as follows:

"A circular, plasma filled accelerator ring called the Magnetic Field Disrupter was developed by Sandia and Livermore laboratories. The plasma, mercury based, is pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a temperature of 150 degrees Kelvin and accelerated to 50,000 rpm to create a super-conductive plasma with a resulting gravity disruption".

Repeat Warning, all red text above is completely unprovable internet nonsense on a par with alien abductions!

More recently I was introduced to the work of Robert L Forward




full paper is available here

It would seem that the BAe heavy lift concept drawing had something similar to Forward's Dipole Gravitational field generator, the reason I mention all this is not because I believe in some conspiracy to hide an anti-gravity breakthrough, I simply find it fascinating how these myths feed off grains of real science, mutate, and gather richness.
The members here are much more intelligent than on the American boards – it’s very encouraging to see.

I think it’s tragic that bright people interested in this fascinating subject feel obligated to fall over themselves to disavow the plausibility of a gravitational field technology. Frankly I suspect that our culture is being intentionally manipulated to discredit those who even dare to advocate the possibility of such a technology – and the basis for my suspicion is, I feel, supported by the “The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations” document (authored by Britain’s Government Communications Headquarters) that Edward Snowden leaked last year.

Let’s focus on the physics. What we do know in the “white world” is that the stress-energy tensor of general relativity, which is the basis for Einstein’s model of gravitation, has 4 physical variables (energy density, energy flux, 3-momentum density, and 3-momentum flux). Modulating any of these terms causes a change in the gravitational field, but to the best of our knowledge humanity’s current technology can only modify these terms in vanishingly small increments - undetectable by our instruments, and yet almost certainly “real.” So it’s a matter of scale, not principle: that’s according to our best publicly known model of gravitation.

However, our physical theories are incomplete and we all know this. The Standard Model hasn’t been unified with General Relativity (gravitation). Dark matter and dark energy are real effects, but they haven’t been integrated with the Standard Model either.

Dark energy appears to be the lynchpin to a gravitational field propulsion technology. The most convincing model of dark energy to date is the cosmological constant, an additional term inserted into Einstein’s gravitational field equation. In a very compelling sense, dark energy is therefore, by our best current “white world” understanding, an aspect of the gravitational field…which just so happens to have a repulsive characteristic within our expanding cosmos.

Here’s where it gets interesting: we have no idea about the nature or the mechanics of the cosmological constant term that’s creating this cosmological “antigravitational” effect. The term itself is simply a placeholder in the equation, denoted by the Greek letter lambda (we could also arbitrarily denote it by the letter “x” – which would at least convey our true state of ignorance regarding its physical character). And we already have convincing reasons to believe that it’s not actually a constant – which means that it can in fact be modulated by physical factors. But since the nature and the mechanism of this term still eludes us, we don’t know what those factors are and therefore whether or not we humans can modulate this mysterious cosmological term with our existing technology. It’s an open and very interesting question.

The bottom line is that given our current “white world” data, it’s just as likely that this term will prove to depend on factors than we can fairly easily modulate to significant magnitudes to produce useful applications, as it is that this term will prove to be (for practical considerastions) forever beyond our technological capability to modify in any meaningful manner.

It’s invigorating to speculate about it. We can speculate that black budget research programs may have already happened upon a means of engineering this term for propulsion applications – that would certainly seem to explain a lot of reports that otherwise appear to evade explanation. And honestly many if not most of the brightest minds in the world work in black budget research programs, so I tend to find this notion plausible, if perhaps optimistic. We can speculate that if this mysterious cosmological term can in fact be modified technologically, then one day we humans will do so…which also suggests that at least some of the other civilizations beyond our solar system have done so. That would explain even more of the anomalous reports we’ve seen from pilots, scientists, and a vast expanse of other competent observers.

Personally, I feel that the correct approach to science is to assume that any physical factor can be technologically modified in some way, unless we have convincing empirical reasons to think otherwise. And even then, I think it’s wise to keep an eye out for new approaches that may appear on the horizon in the future.

Because so far, we humans have been able to master a vast and rapidly expanding frontier of physical phenomena, and I see no reason to expect that process to grind to a halt anytime soon.

Gravitational field propulsion technology may already exist in highly classified labs around the world. And if not, then we still have every reason to believe that one day there may be. So the next time someone tries to embarrass you for entertaining the possibility, hold their feet to the fire on the physics – because where the rubber meets the road, there’s no scientific physical reason to exclude the possibility of such a technology…at least not yet.
The BBC are due to run a documentary on Project Greenglow:

Whilst this must mean there is nothing to it, the EM drive sounds tantalising....
Related article here.
For me the most interesting part of the documentary was during the visit to the UK Defense Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down, specifically the off hand revelation that one of project greenglow's initial goals was actually to investigate the idea of using of gravity to detect stealth aircraft. I hadn't heard that before.

The current DSTL disruptive technology group's quantum gravity gradiometer was also interesting, (a vacuum chamber containing a "cloud" of quantum entangled atoms which responds to disturbances in the earth's gravitational field caused by moving mass). The system shown was sensitive enough to detect the mass of a human body at a range of about 1m.

Whilst the application of quantum engineering to measurement of gravitational fields is clearly new, the sensitivity displayed is not unprecedented.

The last post I made in this murky topic referred to some of the work of Robert L Forward, However, I didn't speak of his mass detector work

Forward Mass Detector

Forward's extensive work in the field of gravitational wave detection included the invention of the rotating cruciform gravity gradiometer or 'Forward Mass Detector', for Lunar Mascon (mass concentration) measurements. In the well-known textbook Gravitation Misner, Wheeler & Thorne point out that it can detect the curvature of spacetime produced by a fist. The principle behind it is quite simple; getting the implementation right is tricky. Essentially, two beams are crossed over and connected with an axle through their crossing point. They are held at right angles to each other by springs. They have heavy masses at the ends of the beams, and the whole assembly spun around the common axle at high speed. The angle between the beams is measured continuously, and if it varies with a period half that of the rotation period, it means that the detector is experiencing a measurable gravitational field gradient.
Mat Parry said:
For me the most interesting part of the documentary was during the visit to the UK Defense Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down, specifically the off hand revelation that one of project Greenglow's initial goals was actualy to investigate the idea of using of gravity to detect stealth aircraft. I hadn't heard that before.


To the very best of my knowledge, the first connection between project Greenglow's origins and gravitational signature detectors for stealth aircraft was publicly discussed in 2000 in a French trade magazine article:

Alexandre Szames, "Le projet Greenglow pour contrôler la gravité," Air & Cosmos, No.1758/59, 14/07/2000, pp.44-45

[title translation: "project Greenglow for controlling gravity"]

This is the first ever published article to present a succinct, well-informed overview and historical account of BAE System's Project Greenglow at a time when it was quite difficult to piece up information. Publication date: July 2000. 16 years ago.




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