Post-war fate of French navy had it escaped Toulon?

[Lascaris]

So say that in 1942 Auphan is a bit more pro-active/decisive and the Marine Nationale or a sizable part of it anyway sails away to join the Allies. Fast forward to 1945 and France ends up the war in possession of several more cruisers, destroyers and submarines. To put it in more concrete terms lets say that the Marine Nationale ends up with the following list of ships besides Richelieu, Jean Bart, Strasbourg and Bearn.

• Heavy Cruisers: 6
  • Algerie class: 1 (Algerie)
  • Duquesne class: 2 (Duquesne, Tourville)
  • Suffren class: 3 (Suffren, Colbert, Foch)
• Light Cruisers: 7
  • Duguay Trouin class: 2 (Duguay Trouin, Primauguet)
  • Emile Bertin class: 1 (Emile Bertin)
  • La Galisonierre class: 3 (Georges Leygues, Montcalm, Gloire)
  • Jeanne d'Arc class: 1 (Jeanne d'Arc)
• Destroyers: 32
  • Mogador class: 2 (Mogador, Volta)
  • Fantasque class: 4 (Le Fantasque, Le Terrible, Le Triomphant, Le Malin)
  • Vauquelin class: 2 (Kersaint, Cassard)
  • Aigle class: 4 (Albatros, Milan, Vautur, Gerfaut)
  • Guepard class: 1 (Verdun)
  • Chakal class: 3 (Lynx, Tigre, Leopard)
  • L' Adroit class: 9 (Basque, Forbin, Le Fortune, L' Alcyon, Bulonnais, Brestois, Fougoueux, Frondeur, L' Adroit)
  • Bourrasque class: 4 (Simoun, Tempete, Tornade, Tramontane)
  • Le Hardi class: 3 (Le Hardi, Mameluk, Casque)
• Torpedo boats: 2
  • La Melpomene class: 2 (La Pomone, L' Iphigenie)
• Submarines: 26
  • Surcouf class: 1 (Surcouf)
  • Redoutable class: 10 (Protee, Acheron, Acteon, Beveziers, Archimede, Argo, Glorieux, Centaure, Casablanca, Redoutable)
  • Requin class: 5 (Espadon, Phoque, Dauphin, Narval, Marsouin)
  • Saphir class: 1 (Rubis)
  • Minerve class: 3 (Minerve, Junon, Iris)
  • Argonaute class: 4
  • Minerve class: 2
• Escorts: 10
  • Bougainville class: 4
  • Flower class: 6

So fast forward to the 1950s. Obviously the surviving fleet is a dwindling resource. But in OTL many of the ships that actually survived made it to the late 1950s and a bit later. Do we see the French navy maintaining higher force levels in the late 1940s early 1950s till the surviving ships start leaving service? And can actually France afford the manpower and maintainance costs involved?

 

[BlackBat242]

Auphan?

Or do you meal Admiral Darlan?

 

[Archdude]

So say that in 1942 Auphan is a bit more pro-active/decisive and the Marine Nationale or a sizable part of it anyway sails away to join the Allies. Fast forward to 1945 and France ends up the war in possession of several more cruisers, destroyers and submarines. To put it in more concrete terms lets say that the Marine Nationale ends up with the following list of ships besides Richelieu, Jean Bart, Strasbourg and Bearn.

• Heavy Cruisers: 6
  • Algerie class: 1 (Algerie)
  • Duquesne class: 2 (Duquesne, Tourville)
  • Suffren class: 3 (Suffren, Colbert, Foch)
• Light Cruisers: 7
  • Duguay Trouin class: 2 (Duguay Trouin, Primauguet)
  • Emile Bertin class: 1 (Emile Bertin)
  • La Galisonierre class: 3 (Georges Leygues, Montcalm, Gloire)
  • Jeanne d'Arc class: 1 (Jeanne d'Arc)
• Destroyers: 32
  • Mogador class: 2 (Mogador, Volta)
  • Fantasque class: 4 (Le Fantasque, Le Terrible, Le Triomphant, Le Malin)
  • Vauquelin class: 2 (Kersaint, Cassard)
  • Aigle class: 4 (Albatros, Milan, Vautur, Gerfaut)
  • Guepard class: 1 (Verdun)
  • Chakal class: 3 (Lynx, Tigre, Leopard)
  • L' Adroit class: 9 (Basque, Forbin, Le Fortune, L' Alcyon, Bulonnais, Brestois, Fougoueux, Frondeur, L' Adroit)
  • Bourrasque class: 4 (Simoun, Tempete, Tornade, Tramontane)
  • Le Hardi class: 3 (Le Hardi, Mameluk, Casque)
• Torpedo boats: 2
  • La Melpomene class: 2 (La Pomone, L' Iphigenie)
• Submarines: 26
  • Surcouf class: 1 (Surcouf)
  • Redoutable class: 10 (Protee, Acheron, Acteon, Beveziers, Archimede, Argo, Glorieux, Centaure, Casablanca, Redoutable)
  • Requin class: 5 (Espadon, Phoque, Dauphin, Narval, Marsouin)
  • Saphir class: 1 (Rubis)
  • Minerve class: 3 (Minerve, Junon, Iris)
  • Argonaute class: 4
  • Minerve class: 2
• Escorts: 10
  • Bougainville class: 4
  • Flower class: 6

So fast forward to the 1950s. Obviously the surviving fleet is a dwindling resource. But in OTL many of the ships that actually survived made it to the late 1950s and a bit later. Do we see the French navy maintaining higher force levels in the late 1940s early 1950s till the surviving ships start leaving service? And can actually France afford the manpower and maintainance costs involved?

Interesting concept!

 

[Archibald]

Auphan was the good guy - unfortunately his superiors de Laborde and Darlan were vichyst dickheads. De Laborde in particularly was a first class moron (and this is unfair to morons, really).

...

CRUISERS -- I have a soft spot for Algerie - France best heavy cruiser, ever. France however was severely limited in manpower after 1945. We got three light cruisers, broadly sharing a similar hull shape: De Grasse, Colbert, Jeanne d'Arc. Each landed a specialized role in the end: flagship of nuclear testing (De Grasse) missile cruiser (Colbert) helicopter cruiser (Jeanne d'Arc).
The 8-inch cruisers older than Algerie would not survive for a very long time.

-What happens to Dunkerque and Strasbourg battlecruisers ? OTL, battleships Jean Bart and Richelieu survived until 1960 but were severely under-manned even at Suez.

- Might be interesting to see the impact of all the surviving destroyers on the T47 / T53 family.

-Submarine cruiser Surcouf went down with all hands in February 1942 so was already gone by Toulon scuttling.

Overall, I think France had no choice other than investing in destroyers and aircraft carriers - CL, CA, BC and BB were luxuries. This duly noted, I want to see Algerie as a missile cruiser with MASURCA.

 

[Dilandu]

de Laborde and Darlan were vichyst dickheads

I always thought Darlan was more anti-British (due to "Catapult") than pro-Vichy?

 

[Archibald]

Darlan was an opportunist, above all.

 

[Elan Vital]

So say that in 1942 Auphan is a bit more pro-active/decisive and the Marine Nationale or a sizable part of it anyway sails away to join the Allies. Fast forward to 1945 and France ends up the war in possession of several more cruisers, destroyers and submarines. To put it in more concrete terms lets say that the Marine Nationale ends up with the following list of ships besides Richelieu, Jean Bart, Strasbourg and Bearn.

• Heavy Cruisers: 6
  • Algerie class: 1 (Algerie)
  • Duquesne class: 2 (Duquesne, Tourville)
  • Suffren class: 3 (Suffren, Colbert, Foch)
• Light Cruisers: 7
  • Duguay Trouin class: 2 (Duguay Trouin, Primauguet)
  • Emile Bertin class: 1 (Emile Bertin)
  • La Galisonierre class: 3 (Georges Leygues, Montcalm, Gloire)
  • Jeanne d'Arc class: 1 (Jeanne d'Arc)
• Destroyers: 32
  • Mogador class: 2 (Mogador, Volta)
  • Fantasque class: 4 (Le Fantasque, Le Terrible, Le Triomphant, Le Malin)
  • Vauquelin class: 2 (Kersaint, Cassard)
  • Aigle class: 4 (Albatros, Milan, Vautur, Gerfaut)
  • Guepard class: 1 (Verdun)
  • Chakal class: 3 (Lynx, Tigre, Leopard)
  • L' Adroit class: 9 (Basque, Forbin, Le Fortune, L' Alcyon, Bulonnais, Brestois, Fougoueux, Frondeur, L' Adroit)
  • Bourrasque class: 4 (Simoun, Tempete, Tornade, Tramontane)
  • Le Hardi class: 3 (Le Hardi, Mameluk, Casque)
• Torpedo boats: 2
  • La Melpomene class: 2 (La Pomone, L' Iphigenie)
• Submarines: 26
  • Surcouf class: 1 (Surcouf)
  • Redoutable class: 10 (Protee, Acheron, Acteon, Beveziers, Archimede, Argo, Glorieux, Centaure, Casablanca, Redoutable)
  • Requin class: 5 (Espadon, Phoque, Dauphin, Narval, Marsouin)
  • Saphir class: 1 (Rubis)
  • Minerve class: 3 (Minerve, Junon, Iris)
  • Argonaute class: 4
  • Minerve class: 2
• Escorts: 10
  • Bougainville class: 4
  • Flower class: 6

So fast forward to the 1950s. Obviously the surviving fleet is a dwindling resource. But in OTL many of the ships that actually survived made it to the late 1950s and a bit later. Do we see the French navy maintaining higher force levels in the late 1940s early 1950s till the surviving ships start leaving service? And can actually France afford the manpower and maintainance costs involved?

Considering that IRL postwar France didn't have the money to enroll all the personnel they wanted, it would be very challenging to operate all of these ships indeed.

It is possible that having a more powerful Navy would give Free France more leverage to receive more support during the war, as it could notably help the Allied war effort. Possibly when the Korean war starts as well.