Northrop-Ventura Air-To-Air RPV (1972)

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Source: Northrop News Feb 1972

 

[hesham]

Amazing find my dear Paul,

but what was its NV numbers ?.

 

[datafuser]

The April 1972 issue of International Defence Review had a short explanation about how it was supposed to be operated.

 

[datafuser]

A concept envisioned in the October 1970 issue of Air Force Magazine depicted two RPV fighters launched in the air by an AWACS, remotely controlled from the AWACS or a ground station.

 

[xena]

I remember there was a lot of hype surrounding RPV back then. There were several books about it that kept the hype going. And then, all of a sudden, the hype disappeared.

 

[Sferrin]

View attachment 690916

Source: Northrop News Feb 1972

Looks familiar.

 

[Sferrin]

I remember there was a lot of hype surrounding RPV back then. There were several books about it that kept the hype going. And then, all of a sudden, the hype disappeared.

Control was the obvious weak link. C-130s had the pilots onboard as I recall. Have seen pictures of drones armed with Mavericks, Shrikes, bombs, etc. When I was a kid (late 70s) they built a building up at Hill AFB to operate these things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_DC-130

"The DC-130H project was tested at Hill Air Force Base, Utah with the 6514th Test Squadron. This aircraft was designed to carry and deploy up to four drones; it could also provide control for up to 16 drones simultaneously. With the end of the Vietnam war and consequent decline in need for combat drones, only one C-130H aircraft was converted for the project.[2]"

 

[fightingirish]

Amazing find my dear Paul,

but what was its NV numbers ?.

Hey folks, could this RPV be part of the Northrop Ventura NV-130 Tactical Expendable Drone System (TEDS)?
Okay, probably not, different wings, so a false description at SDASM Flickr Archive.
Sources (SDASM Flickr Archive):

https://flic.kr/p/dV38Tc

View: https://flic.kr/p/dV38Tc

https://flic.kr/p/dV8GFq

View: https://flic.kr/p/dV8GFq

 

[hesham]

Hey folks, could this RPV be part of the Northrop Ventura NV-130 Tactical Expendable Drone System (TEDS)?
Okay, probably not, different wings, so a false description at SDASM Flickr Archive. :

Thank you my dear Rolf,

and I think it was developed from it as NV-133 or NV-134 ?.

 

[MadRat]

Why does it remind me of BOMARC?

 

[SuperShark]

Why does it remind me of BOMARC?

I was thinking the YFQ-44A's father who was ahead of his time

 

[Sferrin]

View attachment 690916

Source: Northrop News Feb 1972

 

[Dilandu]

I remember there was a lot of hype surrounding RPV back then. There were several books about it that kept the hype going. And then, all of a sudden, the hype disappeared.

The "fighter mafia" moved in after Vietnam, and they really didn't like the idea of piloted planes being replaced by robots.

 

[Archibald]

I remember there was a lot of hype surrounding RPV back then. There were several books about it that kept the hype going. And then, all of a sudden, the hype disappeared.

As late as 1977 Ryan in particular was flying modified Firebees / Lightning bugs for bombing (with Maverick and LGBs), SEAD, chaff and electronic warfare.
So what happened ?
-Chaff no longer worked against the most recent Soviet radars and missiles;
-F-4G Wild Weasel did a better job than drones, for SEAD;
-EF-111A Raven went brute force jamming and electronic warfare, which needed massive electrical power drones did not have;
-F-117 Nighthawk with LGBs solved the vulnerability issue against SAMs

All three proved better than drones that ran into the state-of-the-art limitations; notably downlinks that could be jammed; Europe atrocious weather; navigation systems before GPS, that is expensive and drifting stellar-inertial.

 

[SuperShark]

Ryan in particular was flying modified Firebees / Lightning bugs for bombing

Info on this?

 

[Archibald]

Info on this?

The BGM-34 series.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Model_147#BGM-34A,_BGM-34B_and_BGM-34C
https://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-34.html#_BGM

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Two studies of remotely piloted vehicles are planned by USAF, with initial
studies to center on vehicle design and mission requirements for air-to-air
and interdiction roles. Such vehicles (AW&ST June 1, 1970, p. 14) have
been generically termed telecraft. Companies likely to respond to the
anticipated proposal requests include Beech, Northrop, Teledyne Ryan
and Lockheed. Separately, USAF still intends to conduct a flight demon—
stration of telecraft for air—to-air missions, using a modified Ryan 147
reconnaissance drone (AW&ST‘ Sept. 28, 1970, p. 20).

AWST 1 Feb 1971

Industry proposals for a USAF-sponsored study of remotely-piloted vehicles
for air-to-air combat, air-ground weapons system delivery and reconnais-
sance are due June 21 at Aeronautical Systems Div. in Dayton. Bid pack-
ages for the eight—month study of a single multifunction drone and three
special purposes vehicles went to 28 companies (AW&ST Feb. 1, p. 11)

AWST 31 May 1971

RPV Study Contractors
Air Force has selected teams headed
by Northrop Corp. and Teledyne Ryan
Aeronautical to conduct parallel stud-
ies of remotely-piloted vehicles (RPV)
—unmanned aircraft under real-time
control of pilots remotely situated
in launching aircraft or on the ground.
The studies will explore vehicles
separately optimized for air-to-ground,
reconnaissance and air~to-air missions
and a single multi—purpose design op-
timized to perform all three missions
(AW&ST May 31, p. 23).

Northrop will be assisted in its study
by TRW Systems and CubicCorp.
Teledyne Ryan’s team member
is RCA Corp.

AWST 4 October 1971

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Same picture is used in RUSI Journal article by Bill Gunston, Unmanned Aircraft—Defence Applications of the RPV (1973)

Caption is

An artist’s impression of a Remotely Piloted Vehicle (RPV) proposed for air-to-air combat missions; one of
several RPV designs proposed to the US Air Force by Northrop Corporation. Piloted from a remote ground-
based or airborne control centre, the RPV would attack enemy bombers or fighters with its air-to-air missiles.
A high performance turbojet engine would provide propulsion

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

This is Teledyne Ryan and RCA's study!

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/the-mysterious-ryan-model-147s-2.19083/

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Ryan's air superiority RPV config was the one on the right, which fell out the ugly tree and hit every branch on its way down.

 

[red admiral]

As late as 1977 Ryan in particular was flying modified Firebees / Lightning bugs for bombing (with Maverick and LGBs), SEAD, chaff and electronic warfare.

Firebees we're still flying chaff-laying missions in Gulf War 1, which I think was the last combat use.

 

[TomS]

Ryan's air superiority RPV config was the one on the right, which fell out the ugly tree and hit every branch on its way down.

The wing shape (especially the roots) reminds me of the supercritical wing NASA tested on an F-8 in this same timeframe. That was optimized for near sonic cruise. Wonder if this is related.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Rolf,

and I think it was developed from it as NV-133 or NV-134 ?.

As I guess,it was earlier than that,and maybe NV-122 VSTT,and also Beech involved
in this competition.