No F-404 family (foreign developments)

[Cjc]

So besides the obvious no f-18 and all that intailes, I'm more interested in how have no f-404 would effect other programs. Were there other engine programs that never made it to production OTL in the same whight and power levels (besides the ej200 anyway)?

 

[isayyo2]

Perhaps smaller engines like the F125 would shine brighter, or proposed EJ200 conversions like Gripen and F/A-50 would follow through?

 

[apparition13]

RB199 is in the same size class. Higher performance variants were mooted, maybe they would be developed.

Rafale might wind up using RB199 prior to M88 availability in place of the F404.

No F404 means no F412, so the A-12 program would have needed a different engine. Not that it mattered. No F412 also means no F414, so SuperHornets would need a different engine, but since the Hornet is also gone there wouldn't be Superhornets anyway, so yay, a path to Supertomcats.

Same for F404 upgrades for the A-4, and the A-6F.

The Gripen would likely be built with upgraded RB199 or EJ200 in mind.

On the other hand, the PW1120 might prove viable. A Gripen designed around it might be interesting, and non-afterburning versions might work for A-4s and the A-6F, assuming they fit. If they don't maybe Allison licenses RB199s.

 

[CV12Hornet]

Unfortunately, the PW1120 is also five inches wider and 600 lbs heavier than the F404, with a lower thrust to weight ratio. It's just ever so slightly too big for a lot of F404 applications.

I expect the M88 to be another beneficiary. Much like the EJ200 there have been proposed variants that push it into F414 territory, and given the usual French attitude towards arms sales countries like Korea and India would be very interested in acquiring such a variant for their own fighter projects.

 

[Archibald]

F404 made the Hornet possible at 2/3 rd the size and lower cost than a F-15. Spain, Australia and Canada realized this: they could have a twin jet not a F-14 nor a F-15. EJ200 and M88, and the according Typhoon and Rafale, were born out of this. France had twice tried to get his own F-15 (ACF & 4000) and realized how the Hornet "niche" could be interesting.

 

[red admiral]

There were plenty of RB.199 derivatives proposed pre-EJ200 so for the early part of the market that seems most likely

Later on then EJ200/M88 as more explicitly designed for a fighter application and newer technology - lower thrust lapse with altitude, higher thrust/weight, lower reheat sfc

 

[BlackBat242]

In the short term, fitting the 11,200 lb.s.t. J52-408 with an afterburner (or using J79s) would have powered at least prototypes of most F-404-powered aircraft.

It also depends on where you kill the engine... at the GE1 (initial concept prototype) stage?

The YJ101 (engine that powered the YF-17) stage?

Or just that the modification of the YJ101's bypass ratio from .20 to .34 somehow never worked?