NBL-4 AAS bomber of 1926 - seeking information.

[ACResearcher]

I'm seeking information about the NBL-4 AAS proposed/prototype two-engine bomber mentioned in a January 11, 1926 AAS memo. Unfortunately, the memo does not mention anything about who made the aircraft.

Anyone have any information?

AlanG

 

[VictorXL188]

I was looking at the designation and one immediate thought came to mind which was the Barling NBL-1 was built at the same time as the Martin NBL-1. Whatever the NBL-4 would be was to replace the Martin NBL-1, one could assume, so it follows that the NBL-4 could be a rival design to the Curtiss XNBS-4 possibly? Of course the XNBS-4 failed in its attempt to replace the Martin NBL-1, as its performance did not add anything to the earlier design. This led to the Army ordering the succession of Keystone Bombers. Just putting it out there as a theory but could one of those be the NBL-4 also?

 

[Hood]

That interesting as I had thought the NBL series had been defunct since circa 1923, and would imply an NBL-3 had been proposed sometime between 1923 and 1926 which seems to be equally unknown.

January 1926 puts this proposal before the first flight of the Huff-Daland XHB-1 (October 1926) and the beginning of the short (mostly unbuilt) HB (Heavy Bomber) designation sequence.
It certainly can't be the single-engined XHB-1 and the twin-engined Fokker XHB-2 proposal was not until 1927.

 

[ACResearcher]

I decided to attach the original document in which the reference to the NBL-4 appears in the hopes that it might ring a bell with someone.

While I've not been through all my files from this time period (probably only 10,000 left to go...), I have spent a fair amount of time trying to track this aircraft down on the interweb. No joy.

Hope this helps.

AlanG

 

[Apophenia]

Hmmm, just a guess but might this have been an earlier AAS designation for the Huff-Daland bomber? The Packard 1A-1500 is mentioned and these were the powerplants for the Huff-Daland XB-1 (before it became the Curtiss Conqueror-powered Keystone XB-1B).

 

[VictorXL188]

Reading the piece you posted ACResearcher one fact sticks out immediately. It mentions an Atlantic Aircraft Drawing 12735. Well Atlantic Aircraft was the name of the Fokker America concern in the 1926 timescale.

 

[iverson]

The "Heavy Bombardment monoplane, Atlantic Aircraft" sounds like the projected Atlantic/Fokker XHB-2 in the "Heavy Bombardment" series, which was to have had two Packard 2A-2540 engines but was never built.

The rest of the discussion in the source seems like designations have been garbled, perhaps while writing from memory at a time when the USAAC designations were far from settled.

The "NBL" designation should stand for "Night Bombardment, Long Range". The only examples that I have heard of were the Witteman-Lewis (Barling) NBL-1 and the Martin NBL-2. There was also an "Night Bombardment, Short Range" series that did include a Curtiss NBS-4, but this was to be Liberty- rather than Packard-powered.

As far as I know, both the NBL and NBS category designations were obsolete by 1926, having been replaced by the equally short-lived LB ("Light Bombardment") and HB (Heavy Bombardment") designations.

In any case, the author speaks of comparing "Light Bomber"--LB--aircraft with air-cooled engines to the "NBL-4" aircraft with twin "1500 Packard" engines.

The Packard 1A-1500 engine of 1924 was unsuccessful and built in small numbers only. The 2A-2540 used in the HB-1 and the 3A-2500 were the only Packards aeroengines used in production quantities.

There was an Atlantic/Fokker monoplane in the "Light Bomber" series: the P&W-powered LB-2, derived from the F.VII but with two engines (http://www.aerofiles.com/fok-XLB2.jpg). The Martin LB-4 was powered by P&W Hornet engines, as were the successful Huff-Daland/Keystone LB-3, -4, -5, -6, -7, -8, -9, and -12 aircraft. The only Packard-powered aircraft was the single-engined Huff-Daland LB-1.

 

[Vahe Demirjian]

The "Heavy Bombardment monoplane, Atlantic Aircraft" sounds like the projected Atlantic/Fokker XHB-2 in the "Heavy Bombardment" series, which was to have had two Packard 2A-2540 engines but was never built.

The rest of the discussion in the source seems like designations have been garbled, perhaps while writing from memory at a time when the USAAC designations were far from settled.

The "NBL" designation should stand for "Night Bombardment, Long Range". The only examples that I have heard of were the Witteman-Lewis (Barling) NBL-1 and the Martin NBL-2. There was also an "Night Bombardment, Short Range" series that did include a Curtiss NBS-4, but this was to be Liberty- rather than Packard-powered.

As far as I know, both the NBL and NBS category designations were obsolete by 1926, having been replaced by the equally short-lived LB ("Light Bombardment") and HB (Heavy Bombardment") designations.

In any case, the author speaks of comparing "Light Bomber"--LB--aircraft with air-cooled engines to the "NBL-4" aircraft with twin "1500 Packard" engines.

The Packard 1A-1500 engine of 1924 was unsuccessful and built in small numbers only. The 2A-2540 used in the HB-1 and the 3A-2500 were the only Packards aeroengines used in production quantities.

There was an Atlantic/Fokker monoplane in the "Light Bomber" series: the P&W-powered LB-2, derived from the F.VII but with two engines (http://www.aerofiles.com/fok-XLB2.jpg). The Martin LB-4 was powered by P&W Hornet engines, as were the successful Huff-Daland/Keystone LB-3, -4, -5, -6, -7, -8, -9, and -12 aircraft. The only Packard-powered aircraft was the single-engined Huff-Daland LB-1.

The Huff-Daland XHB-3 monoplane project also was powered by Packard engines, so it's possible that the "NBL-4" might be XHB-3.

 

[iverson]

The "Heavy Bombardment monoplane, Atlantic Aircraft" sounds like the projected Atlantic/Fokker XHB-2 in the "Heavy Bombardment" series, which was to have had two Packard 2A-2540 engines but was never built.

The rest of the discussion in the source seems like designations have been garbled, perhaps while writing from memory at a time when the USAAC designations were far from settled.

The "NBL" designation should stand for "Night Bombardment, Long Range". The only examples that I have heard of were the Witteman-Lewis (Barling) NBL-1 and the Martin NBL-2. There was also an "Night Bombardment, Short Range" series that did include a Curtiss NBS-4, but this was to be Liberty- rather than Packard-powered.

As far as I know, both the NBL and NBS category designations were obsolete by 1926, having been replaced by the equally short-lived LB ("Light Bombardment") and HB (Heavy Bombardment") designations.

In any case, the author speaks of comparing "Light Bomber"--LB--aircraft with air-cooled engines to the "NBL-4" aircraft with twin "1500 Packard" engines.

The Packard 1A-1500 engine of 1924 was unsuccessful and built in small numbers only. The 2A-2540 used in the HB-1 and the 3A-2500 were the only Packards aeroengines used in production quantities.

There was an Atlantic/Fokker monoplane in the "Light Bomber" series: the P&W-powered LB-2, derived from the F.VII but with two engines (http://www.aerofiles.com/fok-XLB2.jpg). The Martin LB-4 was powered by P&W Hornet engines, as were the successful Huff-Daland/Keystone LB-3, -4, -5, -6, -7, -8, -9, and -12 aircraft. The only Packard-powered aircraft was the single-engined Huff-Daland LB-1.

The Huff-Daland XHB-3 monoplane project also was powered by Packard engines, so it's possible that the "NBL-4" might be XHB-3.

I suppose that the XHB-3 could have become XLB-something and been considered a light bomber. The Huff-Daland LB-1 was originally the HB-1. But the designation given is "NBL-4". Some sort of confusion is going on.

 

[Vahe Demirjian]

The "Heavy Bombardment monoplane, Atlantic Aircraft" sounds like the projected Atlantic/Fokker XHB-2 in the "Heavy Bombardment" series, which was to have had two Packard 2A-2540 engines but was never built.

The rest of the discussion in the source seems like designations have been garbled, perhaps while writing from memory at a time when the USAAC designations were far from settled.

The "NBL" designation should stand for "Night Bombardment, Long Range". The only examples that I have heard of were the Witteman-Lewis (Barling) NBL-1 and the Martin NBL-2. There was also an "Night Bombardment, Short Range" series that did include a Curtiss NBS-4, but this was to be Liberty- rather than Packard-powered.

As far as I know, both the NBL and NBS category designations were obsolete by 1926, having been replaced by the equally short-lived LB ("Light Bombardment") and HB (Heavy Bombardment") designations.

In any case, the author speaks of comparing "Light Bomber"--LB--aircraft with air-cooled engines to the "NBL-4" aircraft with twin "1500 Packard" engines.

The Packard 1A-1500 engine of 1924 was unsuccessful and built in small numbers only. The 2A-2540 used in the HB-1 and the 3A-2500 were the only Packards aeroengines used in production quantities.

There was an Atlantic/Fokker monoplane in the "Light Bomber" series: the P&W-powered LB-2, derived from the F.VII but with two engines (http://www.aerofiles.com/fok-XLB2.jpg). The Martin LB-4 was powered by P&W Hornet engines, as were the successful Huff-Daland/Keystone LB-3, -4, -5, -6, -7, -8, -9, and -12 aircraft. The only Packard-powered aircraft was the single-engined Huff-Daland LB-1.

The Huff-Daland XHB-3 monoplane project also was powered by Packard engines, so it's possible that the "NBL-4" might be XHB-3.

I suppose that the XHB-3 could have become XLB-something and been considered a light bomber. The Huff-Daland LB-1 was originally the HB-1. But the designation given is "NBL-4". Some sort of confusion is going on.

The LB-1 and HB-1 were different aircraft, the HB-1 having a longer fuselage and wingspan. The prototype LB-1 was powered by a single Packard 1A-1500, while the production LB-1s had a Packard 2A-2500. The HB-1's powerplant was different from the LB-1, full stop.