BlueAbyssal
ACCESS: Top Secret
- Joined
- 14 January 2024
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- 534
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- 931
There doesn’t seem to be much rational thinking behind moving a Shuttle again.
If you’re asking about general values in spaceflight, there are at least three major camps, broadly defined as follows:
• The Saganists: robotic exploration is the way to go, Earth is our home, maybe humans are involved, but only in small numbers.
• The Apollonians: space is the province of the state, big government programs to put a few humans on another body for brief periods is what spaceflight is all about.
• The O’Neillians: the reason to go to space is massive economic expansion and settlement.
The concerns about ‘tech bros’ and ‘Trump’s people’ usually come from the Apollonians. Their ideology has been dominant inside NASA for many decades, and they’re used to how things have worked for nearly so long. There are established rules and patterns that they want to see followed, and they see the third group breaking those rules. The grievance types are a mix of Apollonians and Saganists, some of whom prefer state efforts and distrust the private sector, some who dislike the idea of settling space and think it can only be effectively done by robots anyway, and some other ideologies. There are subfactions-greens, accelerationists, Mars Firsters, doomers, and so on, but I think those are the broadest applicable categories.
Ultimately what all groups want is the same-power-but to express that power very differently. The O’Neillian group is by far the broadest, as any real settlement effort needs a good deal of exploration and robotic support to work. If Artemis was explicitly about laying the groundwork for lunar industry and science, and in a big way, the cost per astronaut using the SLS/Orion would be easier to justify. Unfortunately, for most of our leaders the point has been to reward favored contractors, and keep parking lots full. Not actually do anything.
To handicap it, in terms of what’s most to least difficult in spaceflight, I’d say: politics, funding, technical. If we don’t agree on the reasons to go, we won’t agree about the others and they’ll be harder to solve. An issue for me is that a good many people don’t seem to have thought about why they support what they do, they just went with the status quo, and so when engaged about it, they either shut down or attack instead of communicate.
If you’re asking about general values in spaceflight, there are at least three major camps, broadly defined as follows:
• The Saganists: robotic exploration is the way to go, Earth is our home, maybe humans are involved, but only in small numbers.
• The Apollonians: space is the province of the state, big government programs to put a few humans on another body for brief periods is what spaceflight is all about.
• The O’Neillians: the reason to go to space is massive economic expansion and settlement.
The concerns about ‘tech bros’ and ‘Trump’s people’ usually come from the Apollonians. Their ideology has been dominant inside NASA for many decades, and they’re used to how things have worked for nearly so long. There are established rules and patterns that they want to see followed, and they see the third group breaking those rules. The grievance types are a mix of Apollonians and Saganists, some of whom prefer state efforts and distrust the private sector, some who dislike the idea of settling space and think it can only be effectively done by robots anyway, and some other ideologies. There are subfactions-greens, accelerationists, Mars Firsters, doomers, and so on, but I think those are the broadest applicable categories.
Ultimately what all groups want is the same-power-but to express that power very differently. The O’Neillian group is by far the broadest, as any real settlement effort needs a good deal of exploration and robotic support to work. If Artemis was explicitly about laying the groundwork for lunar industry and science, and in a big way, the cost per astronaut using the SLS/Orion would be easier to justify. Unfortunately, for most of our leaders the point has been to reward favored contractors, and keep parking lots full. Not actually do anything.
To handicap it, in terms of what’s most to least difficult in spaceflight, I’d say: politics, funding, technical. If we don’t agree on the reasons to go, we won’t agree about the others and they’ll be harder to solve. An issue for me is that a good many people don’t seem to have thought about why they support what they do, they just went with the status quo, and so when engaged about it, they either shut down or attack instead of communicate.
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