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NAKAJIMA SAIUN, SAIUN NIGHT FIGHTER and SAIUN-KAI(C6N2)

Stargazer2006

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Re: NAKAJIMA SAIUN and SAIUN-KAI(C6N2)

Inasmuch as I love the Saiun and all Japanese aircraft related topics, what does this have to do in "Early Aircraft Projects"?!?
This ought to be moved to Aerospace, if anything.
 

blackkite

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Uuuum. Aerospace! Of course It isn't an unbuild project. :-[
I think that "Japanese project before 1945" is too large too handle as Jemiba mentioned.
So I begin independent subject for Saiun.
 

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Stargazer2006

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More Saiun still:
 

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Stargazer2006

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I hope there are no duplicates between blackkite's and my own posts...
 

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blackkite

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Hi Star! Enjoy.
No doubt that you are really one of the outstanding in this world.
Source: Mechanism of Military Aircraft Saiun / Type 0 Seaplane, Kojinsha 1999, ISBN4-7698-0912-3 C0372
 

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Sundog

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I have the prototype kit (1/48 Hasegawa) and I think I have a kit of the Production variant. Thanks for all of the references as I haven't built either yet. :)
 

blackkite

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Hi! It's a super book. Please get.
This series include following planes.
Vol 1: Shiden/Shidenkai/94 type recon seaplane
Vol 2: Hien/5-shiki fighter/99-shiki twin engine light bomber
Vol 3: Saiun/o type recon seaplane(this book)
Vol 4: Raiden/Reppu/100-shiki recon
Vol 5:Zero fighter
Vol 6:Toryu/99-shiki recon
Vol 7:Hayate/97-shiki heavy bomber/2-shiki flying boat
Vol 8:p-51/P-47
Vol 9:F6F/F4U
Vol 10:FW190/Bf109
Vol 11:Suisei/99-shiki dive bomber
Vol 12:Hayabusa/Shoki/97-shiki fighter
Vol 13:Ginga/1-shiki land bomber
Vol 14:97-shiki carrier torpedo bomber/Tenzan
Vol 15:Hiryu/DC-3/0-shiki cargo plane
Vol 16:96-shiki carrier fighter/0-shiki observation plane



Thanks Justo. Of course you are one of the outstanding in this world,too. :D
Sundog, please try C6N2 model.
 

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Sundog

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I have the books on the Raiden and the Shoki. They're outstanding, just for the pics and the technical info, since I definitely can't read them. ;)
 

blackkite

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Yes Japanese wall is very high for western people, and English wall is high for general Japanese people, too. It's sad.
 

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windswords

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Blackkite,

These are fantastic images. I was not aware that there was an attempt to add a turbocharger to the C6N.

I wonder how many planes the Japanese tried to turbocharge? Some were built from the beginning with turbos like the Ki-94-II and the G8N, others were added later in development like the A6M4 Zero. Does anyone know if the Ki-46 ever got turbochargers?
 

blackkite

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Yes Ki-46Ⅳ had turbo chargers.
In 27th of February 1945, two turbocharged Ki-46Ⅳ marked over 700km/h average speed in Beijing(北京)-Tokyo(東京) non stop difficult cloudy flight followed strong winter jet stream.(Distance:2,250km, flight time(3hours35minutes(No.1 plane), 3hours15minutes(No.2 plane)).
 

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Stargazer2006

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Beautiful profile, blackkite. Where is it from? If you have others in that quality, I would be very interested!
 

blackkite

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Hi! Turbo charged Raiden.
Top speed was 315kt (583km/h,9200m, almost same as B-29). Turbocharged Raiden had no superiority for B-29.
Source:The interceptor Raiden(局地戦闘機 雷電), Gakken(学研),2000, ISBN4-05-602378-6
 

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CostasTT

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I recall reading that the torpedo bomber variant would have had a couple of fixed 20mm cannon. Was a prototype built, or did it remain a project?
 

blackkite

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CostasTT said:
I recall reading that the torpedo bomber variant would have had a couple of fixed 20mm cannon. Was a prototype built, or did it remain a project?

Oh! You mean Ki-46 torpedo bomber variant? ::)
Sorry. I can't find such a project.
 

blackkite

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Hi! Ki-46Ⅳ.
You can see engine exhaust gas nozzle through turbocharger at the aft bottom of the engine nacelle.
Ki-46Ⅳ turbocharging system had no inter cooler. It had water injection system at the air inlet instead of inter cooler same as Ki-100 Ⅱ fighter.
 

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windswords

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Hi Blacckite,

Can you translate what the numbers are (1 through 17) for the drawing of the Ki-100 2? Similar to what you did for the Shiden and Shiden_kai drawings. Thanks for the great drawings and pictures!
 
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CostasTT

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blackkite said:
CostasTT said:
I recall reading that the torpedo bomber variant would have had a couple of fixed 20mm cannon. Was a prototype built, or did it remain a project?

Oh! You mean Ki-46 torpedo bomber variant? ::)
Sorry. I can't find such a project.
Sorry, I should have clarified. I meant the Saiun torpedo bomber, the C6N1-B. According to Wiki, it wasn't built, but I'd like confirmation if possible.
 

blackkite

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Hi!
Air inlet for carburetor
Pressurized air tank for oil circulation system
20mm cannon magazine
H0-5 20mm cannon
Fuel tank(No.1?)
3-shiki sight
No.3 fuel tank
99-shiki-hi transmitter
Oil tank
Fuel tank for starting
Oxygen tank
Turbine controller
No.2 fuel tank
Fuel cooler
Air inlet(wing root)
Oil cooler
HA112-2 engine(1,500hp)
 

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blackkite

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CostasTT said:
blackkite said:
CostasTT said:
I recall reading that the torpedo bomber variant would have had a couple of fixed 20mm cannon. Was a prototype built, or did it remain a project?

Oh! You mean Ki-46 torpedo bomber variant? ::)
Sorry. I can't find such a project.
Sorry, I should have clarified. I meant the Saiun torpedo bomber, the C6N1-B. According to Wiki, it wasn't built, but I'd like confirmation if possible.
Yes I can confirm Saiun torpedo bomber variant C6N1-B and there is a opinion that Saiun torpedo bomber variant was called C6N5. ;)
 

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Hi Star! Enjoy.
No doubt that you are really one of the outstanding in this world.
Source: Mechanism of Military Aircraft Saiun / Type 0 Seaplane, Kojinsha 1999, ISBN4-7698-0912-3 C0372
Are those little bombs or something? In the color equipment image, middle of the crew compartment
 

Justo Miranda

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Nakajima C6N Saiun

The Nakajima C6N was designed as the successor of the Aichi D4Y. The Saiun was a fast carrier-based, long-range reconnaissance airplane, almost immune to Allied interception. Airframe structure was very light, with six unprotected fuel tanks located inside the wings, features that made it very vulnerable to battle damage.With the same maximum speed than the Hellcat and 12,500 m of absolute ceiling, the Saiun could travel 3,000 nautical miles with a ventral fuel tank of 762 litres, eluding all Allied fighters except for the Mustang. The C6N was too valuable for the IJN intelligence services, for its ability to locate Allied fleets, and only intervened in the kamikaze offensive marginally.
The structural weakness of the aircraft did not allow the installation of a bomb under the fuselage and had to be renovated according to the existing plans for the future version of bombardment C6N1-Ko Mod.21. The wings were probably strengthened, eliminating the external tanks of 1,921 litres and installing one 800 kg bomb that was bolted under the centre section of the wing.
Two C6N were also modified as C6N1-S night fighters, with Type 5, a 30 mm cannon mounted in 30 degrees Schräge Musik configuration, installed behind the pilot.
In July-August of 1945 the two prototypes performed operational tests with the 302 Kokutai-3rd Hikotai based in Atsugi. The night of 1 August 1945 one of the airplanes intercepted a B-29, without shooting it down. The IJN concluded that the maximum speed and ceiling of the C6N1-S were insufficient to fight the B-29s.
Nakajima decided to improve the performances of the Saiun using a NK9K-2 Homare 24 Ru engine, with Hitachi 92 (Ru 212) turbocharger, driving a four-bladed, constant-speed, VDM C6P10 propeller. The prototype, known as C6N2 Model 12, proved capable of flying at 12,500 m, but its maximum speed was not considered enough.
The C6N3-KAI Model 22 was a night fighter project powered by a Mitsubishi Ha-43-11 radial engine, with Hitachi Model 10 turbocharger and two Type 99-2, 20 mm cannon mounted in 30-degree Schräge Musik configuration.

C6N1-S technical data

Wingspan: 12.5 m, length: 11.15 m, height: 3.96 m, wing area: 25.5 sq.m, max weight: 4,500 kg, estimated max speed: 600 kph, estimated service ceiling: 10,800 m.
 

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Noveos

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Nakajima C6N Saiun

The Nakajima C6N was designed as the successor of the Aichi D4Y. The Saiun was a fast carrier-based, long-range reconnaissance airplane, almost immune to Allied interception. Airframe structure was very light, with six unprotected fuel tanks located inside the wings, features that made it very vulnerable to battle damage.With the same maximum speed than the Hellcat and 12,500 m of absolute ceiling, the Saiun could travel 3,000 nautical miles with a ventral fuel tank of 762 litres, eluding all Allied fighters except for the Mustang. The C6N was too valuable for the IJN intelligence services, for its ability to locate Allied fleets, and only intervened in the kamikaze offensive marginally.
The structural weakness of the aircraft did not allow the installation of a bomb under the fuselage and had to be renovated according to the existing plans for the future version of bombardment C6N1-Ko Mod.21. The wings were probably strengthened, eliminating the external tanks of 1,921 litres and installing one 800 kg bomb that was bolted under the centre section of the wing.
Two C6N were also modified as C6N1-S night fighters, with Type 5, a 30 mm cannon mounted in 30 degrees Schräge Musik configuration, installed behind the pilot.
In July-August of 1945 the two prototypes performed operational tests with the 302 Kokutai-3rd Hikotai based in Atsugi. The night of 1 August 1945 one of the airplanes intercepted a B-29, without shooting it down. The IJN concluded that the maximum speed and ceiling of the C6N1-S were insufficient to fight the B-29s.
Nakajima decided to improve the performances of the Saiun using a NK9K-2 Homare 24 Ru engine, with Hitachi 92 (Ru 212) turbocharger, driving a four-bladed, constant-speed, VDM C6P10 propeller. The prototype, known as C6N2 Model 12, proved capable of flying at 12,500 m, but its maximum speed was not considered enough.
The C6N3-KAI Model 22 was a night fighter project powered by a Mitsubishi Ha-43-11 radial engine, with Hitachi Model 10 turbocharger and two Type 99-2, 20 mm cannon mounted in 30-degree Schräge Musik configuration.

C6N1-S technical data

Wingspan: 12.5 m, length: 11.15 m, height: 3.96 m, wing area: 25.5 sq.m, max weight: 4,500 kg, estimated max speed: 600 kph, estimated service ceiling: 10,800 m.
Ah I was just confused by these:

89557DEA-F3C7-4625-AF52-DA4B22074291.jpeg
 
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