MOWAG IFV MISTRAL

[jmiori]

Does anyone of you any information of this tracked ifv produced by mowag???? I searched on Google with no positive results and I only have a regular pictures but no historic and/or technical data

Thanks in advance

Juan Miori

 

[Apophenia]

Juan, do you mean the planned SAM version of the tracked MOWAG Trojan IFV (with Mistral, Starstreak, Stinger, etc.)? Or was there a MOWAG IFV named Mistral?

 

[jmiori]

my question is refered to a tracked apc armed wuth an oerlikon turrert madde by MOWAG AG, it was very similar to a M113 apc but more flat. The only picture I have was obtained time ago from Mowag AG website but now this site was changed. Any information will be appreciated

Best regards

 

[Apophenia]

That fits the description of a number of MOWAG tracked IFV prototypes: 3M1, Spz Pirat, Tornado, Improved Tornado, and Trojan. See some comparisons:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2322757760100192038wPlRFU

I'm not sure what calibre the gun is on the 3M1 . There was also a project for a twin 35mm Oerlikon SPAAG mount on the Type 3 hull. See here:
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php?topic=20893.100

For Tornado, see this thread:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8817.0

Toronado went through a few incarnations since 1968. I'm thinking of its 1979 configuration with RWS. Improved Tornado was also offered with a 2-man turret with 25mm or 35mm Oerlikon.

Tornado Specs

Crew: 3+7
Combat weight: 22,300 kg
Dimensions: 6.70m L, 3.15m W, 2.86m H (to turret top)
Engine: 390 hp Detroit Diesel 8V-71T
Performance: 66 km/h (road, 400 km range, 1.3m ford, 0.85m vert. ob, 2.2m trench, 0.45m ground clearance.

From: 'A compendium of armaments and military hardware' by Chris Chant

 

[xiaofan]

Some high quality pictures of MOWAG vehicles like Pirat14, Tornado and Trojan.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/735221@N20/pool/tags/mowag/

 

[thebig C]

The Tornado looks like a nice piece of kit, particularly in its final variations. I think I recall reading that it entered a few competitions and was in fact given heavy consideration for an Italian requirement.

As an aside I think the Pirat IS related to the Infamous German HS-30:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch%C3%BCtzenpanzer_Lang_HS.30

Here is an interesting Polish site with some Mowag vehicles:

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://tank-factory.w.interia.pl/thumbs_szwajc_opw/tn_Mowag%2520Pirat%25201962.jpg&imgrefurl=http://tank-factory.w.interia.pl/szwajc_opw.htm&usg=__h6deQQxrTVgiW-I-xQug18yLEKU=&h=60&w=110&sz=4&hl=en&start=7&sig2=sWSfFHOQN8PpbIvhF7wEIA&zoom=0&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=XzLcLeF65OiHjM:&tbnh=46&tbnw=85&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMOWAG%2BPIRAT%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=SSeXTaDoCY6xhAfY04iRBQ

C

 

[Apophenia]

The comparison image below of the preserved Pirat 18 and HS-30 at Thun shows that there is only a conceptual similarity between the track systems of these two type. So, the Pirat series isn't directly related to the HS-30. Rather, Mowag and Hispano-Suiza were both Swiss rivals in the Bundeswehr's Schützenpanzer contest ultimately leading to the Spz 12-3.

Mowag Pirat 12, Pirat 14, and 3M1 Pirat 18 were trialled by the Swiss in 1960-63 (alongside the Swiss Sauer Spz Tartaruga, AMX-VCI, and M113 which became the Spz). The 1962 3M1 Pirat 18 evolved from the earlier Schützenpanzer attempts but incorporated the lessons learned (armour and remote armament) by Mowag's involvement with the German Projekt Marder.

BTW, Mowag was involved in the early development of Marder employing "elements" of Typhoon. Along with Rheinstahl Gruppe, Hanomag, and Henschel Thyssen, Mowag built Marder prototypes (series 1 - HM 1 and HM 2; series 2 - 2 M1/1, 2 M1/2, and 2 M1/3; components for series 3).

Mowag's Tornado was also an evolution of Typhoon.

Specifications: 3M1 Pirat 18 (as initially trialled by Swiss)

Crew: 3 + 9 Panzer Grenadiers
Dimen: Length 6.1 m, Width 2.9 m, Height 1.8 m
Armament: 1 x 20 mm Oerlikon in one-man turret (remote MG optional)
Combat weight: 18.1 tonnes (with turret mounted)
Max speed: 70 km/h
Oper. range: 500 km
Powerplant: 305 hp Ford 534 cid V8 (gasoline), transmission (6 fwd, 2 reverse gears)

 

[thebig C]

Hey Apophenia

Thanks for that info I realised my mistake a couple of days after posting...I guess the clue was in the name "HS"-30!!

You really know your stuff regarding the involvement of Mowag in the Marder project and Swiss trials. Obviously the Tornado remained at prototype stage, do you know if it ever came close to being adopted? (aside from the Italian example I mentioned above, although I could be wrong about that I have a vague memory of reading it somewhere).

C

 

[Apophenia]

Cheers 'C. Actually, I'm just rummaging around in the dark like everyone else outside of Kreuzlingen ;D

AFAIK, Tornado was always an also-ran due to higher costs.

That Italian VCC (Veicolo Corazzato da Combattimento) contest led to the VCC-1 Camillino - aka M113A1PI (Product Improved) - derived from FMC's XM765. Two types of Mowag IFV were evaluated but rejected on cost grounds. From the 1974 VCC contest date, I'm assuming that Mowag submitted two armament variations on the Tornado hull. Does anyone know for sure?

 

[thebig C]

Thanks Apophenia

Its strange that Mowags tracked vehicles were so spectacularly unsuccessful and that high costs were an issue. Particularly when you contrast it with their history of being a leader in providing wheeled armoured vehicles that were affordable and reliable!

C

 

[JAZZ]

Mistral 1985 project

 

[jmiori]

JAZZ , this is the apc I am asking for more technical data.

Best regards

 

[skylancer-3441]

Some info

 

[jmiori]

Some info

Many thanks for the information!

 

[Phantom Fanatic]

Some info

what book is that from?

 

[skylancer-3441]

Some info

what book is that from?