Martin-Baker delta jet fighter projects

[smurf]

MB-4 never built. The sabre-engined MB-3 was to have had a merlin, but Martin, as ever, couldn't make a simple substitution, and after the MB-3 crashed, he redesigned it to become the MB-5.
The jet delta was not the MB-6. See attached pictures. The MB-6 was one of his late war designs, see "Sir James Martin the authorized biography of the Martin-Baker ejection seat pioneer" by Sarah Sharman, edited by Patrick Stephens Limited. My copy still packed. I'm getting tired of having to say this!

 

[Deltafan]

Thanks for this delta smurf


I remember a later Gloster F.3/48 counterpart. I post this in postwar secret projects.

 

[smurf]

New post because the European Aircraft thread with info on the "MB-6" delta is now locked?
Source: Sir James Martin by Sarah Sharman Patrick Stephens 1996
(Excellent book mostly concerned with JM's early developments, wartime fighters, and (over half) ejector seats.
But

 

[red admiral]

Hi, Smurf

I just finished reading this book myself. Is there any chance you could scan the other M-B types in the back, and the pictures of the MB3 in the middle please?

Thanks

 

[Justo Miranda]

Please see attached some stuff from "Flight" 16 september 1948
and unknown source

 

[Wingknut]

Very interesting, Justo - I've seen a profile of something that looks very like the lower design but which my records describe as a Gloster entry for F3/48, the single-seat fighter requirement met by the Hunter. (Of course the Gloster entry for F4/48 - the two-seat nightfighter requirement - was the Javelin. See: <http://www.btinternet.com/~javelin/p02_development/p02_development.htm>.)
Cheers,
'Wingknut'

 

[archipeppe]

It seems a Lippisch wartime project follow-on.
Strange and interesting especially because English has taken so few by Germans (aeronautically speaking) in the very afterwar....

 

[smurf]

See also

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1217.0/highlight,mb6.html

 

[Justo Miranda]

Very interesting, Justo - I've seen a profile of something that looks very like the lower design but which my records describe as a Gloster entry for F3/48, the single-seat fighter requirement met by the Hunter. (Of course the Gloster entry for F4/48 - the two-seat nightfighter requirement - was the Javelin. See: <http://www.btinternet.com/~javelin/p02_development/p02_development.htm>.)
Cheers,
'Wingknut'

It's a Gloster P.275
You may see the three view in the book "British Secret Projects: Jet Fighters since 1950" by Tony Buttler

 

[bluedonkey99]

Hello all,

I stumbled across a copy of the Royal Air Force Flying Review Vol 13 No 1, dated September 1957.

It has the attached image as part of a fascinating article on the histpory of the Martin Baker Company, including a short section on a post war development of the M.B. 6. (If the M.B.6 designation as supplied in this RAF Journal holds true, then it indicates that a number of posts on the forum on this matter could be incorrect?)

It resembles the image above from 'Flight' magazine, but represented via a frontal view.

Regards
BD99

 

[Jos Heyman]

I have the M.B.6 as a straight wing jet fighter project from 1945.
Different from what is shown here.

 

[Taranov]

Gloster P.275, from "Gloster Aircraft Since 1917" book.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The Flight article makes it clear that they simply photographed a model on the Martin-Baker stand in 1948, they do not describe it as MB.6.


Its not totally identical to the Gloster F3/48 - if anything it looks faster.


It is in my opinion likely a generic "future fighter", perhaps illustrating Martin-Baker high speed ejection concepts, based on the either Lippitsch delta concept or the Gloster design.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


is that a real design to martin-baker ?,it was a twin engined delta wing fighter !.


http://forum.worldofwarplanes.eu/index.php?/topic/8912-martin-baker-prototype-concept-aircraft-photo-archive/

 

[Jemiba]

The site mainly is for gamers of "World of Warplanes" and I have the feeling, that a lot of those designs on that site
are fictional types for that game.

 

[hesham]

My dear Jemiba,


only this twin engined delta wing fighter and MB.6 3-view may be fake and may be real
but the whole other designs are real.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

I want to ask if this delta-wing Project submitted to F43/46 Specification or not ?.

 

[Deltafan]

In Tony Buttler British Secret Projects Jet fighters since 1950 Midland 2000, page 29,
Buttler wrote about the Martin-Baker F.43/46 Delta wing,
that this project was
"apparently not submitted; it received no consideration at the Conference. (...). Despite the project appearing in model form at the 1947 SBAC show at Radlett, there was no way the firm could realistically build such an advanced aircraft, despite previous success with piston types, and it chose instead to work on ejector seats (...)"

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Deltafan.

 

[VictorXL188]

Given that this book states that this straight winged design is the real MB.6, does anyone know what the designation was for the delta winged MB.6 wannabe?

 

[hole in the ground]

Is it not this gloster aircraft?

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17576.0.html

Edited - spell check turned gloster into floater

 

[Schneiderman]

This was discussed here

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3601.0/highlight,martin+baker.html

Two very similar projects

edit: Post redundant now threads have been merged

 

[hesham]

Hi,

from the site which discovered by my dear Cy-27,what
was Martin-Baker MB.7 ?.

 

[steelpillow]

I have the M.B.6 as a straight wing jet fighter project from 1945.
Different from what is shown here.

Given that this book states that this straight winged design is the real MB.6, does anyone know what the designation was for the delta winged MB.6 wannabe?

The straight winged "MB 6" is claimed to be a two-seat night-fighter derivative of the piston-engined MB 5. AZ Model even released a kit of it. There is a very interesting kit review at https://hangar47.com/martin-baker-m-b-6_prevue/

Note especially that, "While the AZ Models instructions claim that the M.B. 6 saw action in the latter stages of WWII in the nightfighter role, achieving some victories, no historical evidence has been found to support this claim, and multiple sources have repeatedly identified the M.B. 6 as a “project” rather than a type in operational service — stories of the latter appear to be the stuff of Luft ’46 fantasies — albeit with a British twist."

Compare that to the many reliable accounts of the delta posted here and it is a short chain of deduction to conclude that even the design of the straight-wing MB 6 is probably an unsourced fairy tale. Unusually, we appear to have here a case where the conventional design is a hoax while the bizarre Wunderwaffen delta (complete with British twist) is the real thing! Either that, or Martin-Baker re-used the designation for some reason (as did, say, de Havilland with the DH 99) and both designs are genuine, but I'd want to see contemporary proof of that before I could accept it.

Just to add: According to the scans posted, the MB 6 underwent considerable wind-tunnel testing before being cancelled without ever being submitted to the Ministry. One might assume it was, like its Gloster look-alike, aimed at F.3/48, and was cancelled when MB realised they were up against the Hawker Hunter.