Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

kqcke for you said:
Honestly it could probaly be the giant F-35 upgrade lockheed proposed with an 2 second engine just a second engine like 1 XA-100/101. Maybe he confused having 2 engines in operation for the jet (1 for all the olds and B's while the other is for future A and C's)
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This statement "...but it’s going to be also with two engines because the F-35 has a single engine. I don’t like single engines.” would seem to preclude that
 
GTX said:
This statement "...but it’s going to be also with two engines because the F-35 has a single engine. I don’t like single engines.” would seem to preclude that
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Sure but maybe its just him going on based on his own misunderstanding. That aside makes we wonder more which role its supposed to fill?
- NGAD / F-22 Super does Air dominance
- F-35 and B-21 do the prime strike rol
Because the cost of making F-35 and twin engine fighter is quite large. Enough to rival the development of a new fighter probaly.
 
GTX said:
Also reported here:

https://www.twz.com/air/trump-wants-a-twin-engine-f-55-version-of-the-f-35-joint-strike-fighter
I would take anything related to this with a truckload of salt.
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I think unlike many here I don't actually mind Trump himself, what I do find obnoxious however is people like him or people in similar positions to him voicing their opinions and desires on military matters. He, and almost all statesmen, have zero clue about anything related to military matter, like literally zero clue. We talk about people who have to get briefed regularly in length about stuff by people who know about said stuff.

And a twin engine F-35 is one such instance where not knowing shit becomes glaringly obvious. The possibility of that happening (or making sense) has passed a very, very long time ago.

On a slightly related note however "F-22 Super Raptor" has the right ring to it. So while a Super Raptor and Super Lightning aren't inherently bad, the approach he suggested just highlights a glaring lack of understanding.

Also almost every stealth aircraft looks good :mad:
 
EmoBirb said:
And a twin engine F-35 is one such instance where not knowing shit becomes glaringly obvious. The possibility of that happening (or making sense) has passed a very, very long time ago.
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Did it really? F-35 isn't exactly old.
 
Ainen said:
Did it really? F-35 isn't exactly old.
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Turning it into a twin engine jet would require massive changes. Such fundamentals like engine configuration occurre very early into an aircrafts development. I wouldn't be surprised if the fact that the JSF will be single engine would have been decided upon well before I was born lol.
 
EmoBirb said:
Turning it into a twin engine jet would require massive changes. Such fundamentals like engine configuration occurre very early into an aircrafts development. I wouldn't be surprised if the fact that the JSF will be single engine would have been decided upon well before I was born lol.
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If it's a thing, it's certainly a new jet (maybe with high commonality factor), but the idea is mildly speaking not unique.
 
Ainen said:
If it's a thing, it's certainly a new jet (maybe with high commonality factor), but the idea is mildly speaking not unique.
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1. The Super Hornet is NOT a Hornet, but it originally included a certain amount of systems and component commonality. And it is certainly true to the idea of a fighter redesigned to move beyond limitations of the original.

2. F-20 is a Super F-5E in the same mold. And it includes a fuselage redesigned to change the number of engines.

Just for the fun of it: the Super F-35 idea sounds a little like the concept behind the F-82 Twin Mustang. Or is that a bridge too far?
 
A couple more thoughts:

1. I am supposing a Super F-35 would exclude an F-35B version, because of the obvious fan drive issues.

2. Wouldn't a twin-engined version of the F-35, and excluding the ugly compromises made for VSTOL, come close to the updated version of the F-22 we all have pined for? In effect, wouldn't it actually equate to the president's F-22 Super?

3. The Anime 2-engine F-35 above is a 21st century EE Lightning - which is just deliciously ironic I think, considering naming history.
 
Titus said:
2. Wouldn't a twin-engined version of the F-35, and excluding the ugly compromises made for VSTOL, come close to the updated version of the F-22 we all have pined for? In effect, wouldn't it actually equate to the president's F-22 Super?
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It would be a new aircraft.
 
Archibald said:
Unfair : Biden was senile, not imbecile (it rhymes)
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Biden administration was unable to take a decision or giving budget for tha NGAD program at the time of China was starting flying the J-36 and J-50, today we have a F-47 contract and something coming along a new F-55 fighter , CEO Lockheed spoke about taking the F-35 chassis and doing a Ferrari with it so I think that he is knowing what he say surely better that the most of us.
 
In my opinion it was politically wise to defer the decision to the new administration for many many reasons. Yes, it cost 9mo in time on the surface, but did it? The Boeing ACAC is nowhere close to being ready and NGAP won’t deliver A102/103 until 2029/2030. Food for thought.

I wanted to add that F-35 as a platform is intended to fly for many more decades and has a large international customer base - so if the funding becomes available a better F-35 might be in the cards, at some point. But right now I think everyone would benefit from executing on Block 4 / TR3.
 
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The decision was deferred by the USAF, not Biden. And the long lead item - the engine - was not delayed.

Any major changes to F-35 are not happening regardless of the opinions of one senile man who thinks magnets stop working in water. F-35 is a trillion dollar project spread across five nations or more with nearly twenty organizations as clients or soon to be clients; you don’t just alter that parts and training stream on a whim. There will be upgrades/blocks, but the fuselage and engine arrangement will be consistent. At most, updated engines will be an option.
 
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Josh_TN said:
The decision was deferred by the USAF, not Biden. And the long lead item - the engine - was not delayed.
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The decision to punt the NGAD decision and take a six-month nap on the program was taken by the then Secretary of the Air Force who is a political appointee of the Biden administration . The SecAF at the time is on record of stating that even though he established a committee of experts (again appointed by him - a political appointee) ultimate decision would be his.
 
"“I have an adorable niece who can do some wonderful, playful freehand drawings for him. It’s mostly the same thing,” said Richard Aboulafia"

"Aboulafia argued that Trump’s comments are so divorced from the technical reality of what it would take to make the F-35 a twin-engine plane — and current US military plans for modernizing its tactical fighter fleet — that he expects no impact to industry whatsoever.

“Anyone who spends money on this without getting direct cash from the government, should sell their shares instantly and replace their CEOs with a functioning adult,” he said."

https://breakingdefense.com/2025/05...twin-engined-f35-experts-say-its-not-feasible
Ouch! Aboulafia's a really serious analyst, I've never seen him break out the sarcasm like this.
 
bring_it_on said:
The decision to punt the NGAD decision and take a six-month nap on the program was taken by the then Secretary of the Air Force who is a political appointee of the Biden administration . The SecAF at the time is on record of stating that even though he established a committee of experts (again appointed by him - a political appointee) ultimate decision would be his.
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Right. So not a decision by the POTUS, at most a deferral to a subordinate who theoretically was more of a subject matter expert.

If we are blaming the POTUS for everything that happens in terms of weapons program fuck ups, that is going to be a long list for most any president. If the buck stops at the Resolute desk, one has to wonder why defense communications are being handled on a public platform and what that says about the capability and management in general.
 
DWG said:
"“I have an adorable niece who can do some wonderful, playful freehand drawings for him. It’s mostly the same thing,” said Richard Aboulafia"

"Aboulafia argued that Trump’s comments are so divorced from the technical reality of what it would take to make the F-35 a twin-engine plane — and current US military plans for modernizing its tactical fighter fleet — that he expects no impact to industry whatsoever.

“Anyone who spends money on this without getting direct cash from the government, should sell their shares instantly and replace their CEOs with a functioning adult,” he said."

https://breakingdefense.com/2025/05...twin-engined-f35-experts-say-its-not-feasible
Ouch! Aboulafia's a really serious analyst, I've never seen him break out the sarcasm like this.
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I feel like his conclusion is nothing that would surprise anyone who is a fairly regular reader of this forum.
 
Changes to the OML?!? Okay, that's MAJOR!

Hopefully they'd stretch the airframe out (FB-22 style) because it doesn't need to fit on LHD elevators. Ideally part of this stretch would be to make the IWBs longer, long enough to stick a couple of SM6s internally.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Changes to the OML?!? Okay, that's MAJOR!
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That's what I was thinking too, changing the OML is NOT a trivial exercise especially when talking about an LO airframe and such a change to be successfully done would be very expensive requiring a LOT of testing to validate the changes.

Scott Kenny said:
Hopefully they'd stretch the airframe out (FB-22 style) because it doesn't need to fit on LHD elevators.
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Perhaps stretching the fuselage with two plugs, one between the wings trailing edges and stabilators and the other ahead of the wings.
 
NMaude said:
Perhaps stretching the fuselage with two plugs, one between the wings trailing edges and stabilators and the other ahead of the wings.
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That's what I'd expect, though it wouldn't really be a "plug" up forward due to the shape of the inlets and weapons bays being rather triangular. The taper of that whole area would change.

Oh, and adding the stretch would allow for 2-seater.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Changes to the OML?!? Okay, that's MAJOR!
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Could be as minor as bulged bay doors, or a dorsal spine F-16I style for extra electronics space. Still a major change in working around stealth issues, but you can vary the outer mould line without the scale of change people are immediately leaping to. (Whether it would be worth it is another question).
 
It's not like LM hasn't accustomed us with the extraordinary.
IMOHO, given the wording, I doubt they are here mentioning a minor upgrade.
 
So, fluidic TVC nozzle paired to an XL style wing layout minus vertical fins? What advances in RAM could they be talking about though?

Edit:
FATE/ICE has entered the chat.
 
JSF made significant compromises - to keep costs down, to remain a viable dogfighter, to fit into ship length limits, to be STOVL.

And given how much pain software development is, is airframe upgrade that much of an issue nowadays?

Sounds like these compromises can potentially go, while retaining the most expensive parts(offensive software pipeline and components). And frankly I wonder if Trump really misheard as much as we laughed.
 
USAF is not paying for any of that. Plus they are still waiting on full TR3, let alone blk4. Their faith in LM execution is basically zero, along with any chance of a program budget increase. So unless these changes are self funded by LM, none of this is happening.
 

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