Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

Ainen said:
SAM launchers are notoriously moving and vengeful types of targets, and ones that are rather hard to pinpoint passively to get a direct hit (SDB isn't exactly an area weapon). Most aren't emitting in the first place.
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Good thing the F-35 has a good SAR/ISAR radar, then. That just so happens to be LPI.

And it's the big SAM launchers that aren't moving that make delicious SDB1 targets.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Good thing the F-35 has a good SAR/ISAR radar, then. That just so happens to be LPI.

And it's the big SAM launchers that aren't moving that make delicious SDB1 targets.
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Well, no one will certainly write anything about a lack of courage.
But probably on a gravestone.

Flying around like fireflies in the sky, scanning for dumb targets waiting to be found isn't the way anyone fights IADS. Stealth and abbreviations don't change that, especially when those abbreviations are a game for two.

The stealthier side is by default the one on the ground, rolling out of a featureless shitty shed that we just overflew. Unless, of course, we assume that the opponent is so backward, that all actions he can try, from an advantageous position, will not be effective. Then, of course, our tactic is sound - such AAA is no different from other stationary targets on exercises.
 
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Scott Kenny said:
I'd rather have a faster missile than one longer ranged for a stealth plane. Less warning before boom.

So, is AARGM-ER faster than the plain AARGM?
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AARGM-ER is twice the speed and twice the range of AARGM/HARM, it got new motors
Though, to be fair, AARGM/HARM doesn't seem to be very fast, especially at long range

@38:44, agm-88 HARM need 3.5 minutes to travel 40 miles, average speed around Mach 1.03 at long range
@1:24:10, agm-88 HARM need 15 seconds to travel 9 miles, average speed around Mach 3.2 at short range
 
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Israeli F-35 have operated inside Sam Area in Syria and Iran. Pretty much aknowledged and relevant links are in the thread.
I don't know why we have to be back here.
 
Israel's policy is they will use F-35 over Syria but wont use them over Iran using older F-15/16 if strikes inside Iran are required.

This is likely due to a cost-risk assessment.
 
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Lc89 said:
What would a possible SEAD configuration of the F35 look like?
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IMO, flight lead with SDB2 and wingman with AARGMER. If you read the book Viper Pilot, a common configuration was CBU-87/AGM-65 on the lead and AGM-88 on the wingman, with the lead calling out ARM shots as necessary but otherwise directly targeting AA sites when identified. Note that this did vary from unit to unit, and that could likely still be the case: units might pick their own configurations, and some opted for all ARM configurations. But the extra magazine depth of using SDB2 for kills, especially of non radar systems, as well as the greatly increased ability of F-35 to geolocate targets, would tend push glidebomb usage.
 
Ronny said:
AARGM-ER is twice the speed and twice the range of AARGM/HARM, it got new motors
Though, to be fair, AARGM/HARM doesn't seem to be very fast, especially at long range
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Nice!

Lc89 said:
What would a possible SEAD configuration of the F35 look like?
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Single bird doing the strike?
USAF: 4x SDB2, 1x AARGM-ER, 2x AMRAAM. If the AIM260 can do antiradar work (it was an early design goal), then it'd go to 8x SDB2 and 2x AIM/AGM260.

with a pair of birds?
Lead: 8x SDB2, 2x AMRAAM
Wing: 2x AARGM-ER, 2x AMRAAM

AARGM are to take down radars, SDBs are to kill the TELs.
 
It is worth pointing out that SBDs would provide adequate stand off against anything short of an S300/400 system, while at the same time being usable against moving targets like Tor, Pantsir or ZSU. It also would allow for laser guidance against targets of opportunity with low radar/IR signatures. It is a very flexible system. The main concern for SEAD usage would be whether the target system was sufficiently alerted that it could engages the glide bomb, since it is not an especially challenging target. But the fact eight can be carried in place of two larger weapons seems too good to pass up.
 
Greece expects to receive a draft letter of acceptance next week from the United States of its request to buy F-35 fighter jets, two Greek sources with knowledge of the matter told Reuters on Friday.
"The (Greek) defence minister will receive a draft letter of acceptance on Monday," one of the sources said.
Greece sent an official request to the United States for the purchase of 20 Lockheed Martin-made F-35 fighter jets in June 2022.
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FighterJock said:
So what Israeli Air Force squadrons will get the new F-35s? New or existing?
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If they didn't have that whole Hamas thing going right now I'd say existing, retiring F-16s as my guess unless their F-15C/Ds are that much older.

But with them trading shots into Gaza? I'd want to stand up new squadrons!
 
I was wondering about the squadrons being new Scott Kenny, the Israeli Air Force will want to get as many F-35 equiped squadrons as they can.
 
I thought that the Turkey's parliament had since backtracked on their stance and had allowed Sweeden to join NATO.
 
$0?

Says $8.6bn for 40 aircraft, 42 engines and spares, software and consumables like flares and chaff. No munitions included in the sale.

Greece had only requested to buy 20 aircraft.
In addition to the sale US will gift Greece surplus military equipment consisting of two C-130H aircraft, 10 engines for P-3 aircraft and 60 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles (the latter presumably to make up for the BMP's Greece gave to Ukraine).
 
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WatcherZero said:
$0?

Says $8.6bn for 40 aircraft, 42 engines and spares, software and consumables like flares and chaff. No munitions included in the sale.
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Typo on my part - meant to say 40. Now corrected.
WatcherZero said:
Greece had only requested to buy 20 aircraft.
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Err...Government of Greece has requested to buy up to forty (40) F-35
 
FighterJock said:
I was wondering about the squadrons being new Scott Kenny, the Israeli Air Force will want to get as many F-35 equiped squadrons as they can.
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But they still only have so many pilots and maintainers.

If you have old planes that are about to age out, like those early F-15s and F-16s, it may be better to go ahead and retire them a little early while sending the personnel to their various schools.
 
More on potential sale of 40 to Hellenic Air Force

Greece – F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) Aircraft | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil www.dsca.mil


The Government of Greece has requested to buy up to forty (40) F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) aircraft; and forty-two (42) Pratt & Whitney F135-PW-100 engines (40 installed, 2 spares). Also included are AN/PYQ-10 Simple Key Loaders; KGV-135A embedded secure communications devices; Cartridge Actuated Devices/Propellant Actuated Devices (CAD/PAD); impulse cartridges, chaff, and flares; Full Mission Simulators and system trainers; electronic warfare systems and Reprogramming Lab support; logistics management and support systems; threat detection, tracking, and targeting systems;

cheers
 
RavenOne said:
More on potential sale of 40 to Hellenic Air Force

Greece – F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) Aircraft | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil www.dsca.mil


The Government of Greece has requested to buy up to forty (40) F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) aircraft; and forty-two (42) Pratt & Whitney F135-PW-100 engines (40 installed, 2 spares). Also included are AN/PYQ-10 Simple Key Loaders; KGV-135A embedded secure communications devices; Cartridge Actuated Devices/Propellant Actuated Devices (CAD/PAD); impulse cartridges, chaff, and flares; Full Mission Simulators and system trainers; electronic warfare systems and Reprogramming Lab support; logistics management and support systems; threat detection, tracking, and targeting systems;

cheers
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The low number of spare engines boggles my mind. I would have expected at least 1 for every 10 aircraft.
 
First time ive ever heard anyone refer to the F135 as reliable, wasnt there an average 18 month wait for engine repairs last year with an average aircraft availability rate of 55%? Theyve been requiring complete rebuilds every 1,600 flying hours when it was supposed to be 2,500 hours.
 
WatcherZero said:
First time ive ever heard anyone refer to the F135 as reliable, wasnt there an average 18 month wait for engine repairs last year with an average aircraft availability rate of 55%? Theyve been requiring complete rebuilds every 1,600 flying hours when it was supposed to be 2,500 hours.
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The engine is very reliable. The only real issues have been parts supply.
 
aim9xray said:
Ah yes, reliability. But the next frontier is durability. The problem right now is that the engine is reliably ... not so durable.
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Kind of interested to know how you are defining the difference between reliability and durability.
 
GTX said:
Kind of interested to know how you are defining the difference between reliability and durability.
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Reliability is related to MTBF - mean time before failure, which drives unscheduled maintenance. Durability is separate and related to TBO - time before overhaul which drives scheduled maintenance. Both types of maintenance may require parts replacement, which is linked to supply availability. Finally there is ease of maintenance which drives the man hours needed for each maintenance action.

So in essence there are 4 main drivers of aircraft availability:
1) MTBF which drives NMCMU rates (Not Mission Capable - Maintenance - Unscheduled)
2) TBO which drives NMCMS rates (Not Mission Capable - Maintenance - Scheduled)
3) NMCS rates (Not Mission Capable - Supply)
4) DMMH/MA effort (Direct Maintenance Man Hours per Maintenance Action)

A reliable aircraft or engine can still be a maintenance nightmare if there are issues with the other 3 factors.
 
H_K said:
Reliability is related to MTBF - mean time before failure, which drives unscheduled maintenance. Durability is separate and related to TBO - time before overhaul which drives scheduled maintenance. Both types of maintenance may require parts replacement, which is linked to supply availability. Finally there is ease of maintenance which drives the man hours needed for each maintenance action.

So in essence there are 4 main drivers of aircraft availability:
1) MTBF which drives NMCMU rates (Not Mission Capable - Maintenance - Unscheduled)
2) TBO which drives NMCMS rates (Not Mission Capable - Maintenance - Scheduled)
3) NMCS rates (Not Mission Capable - Supply)
4) DMMH/MA effort (Direct Maintenance Man Hours per Maintenance Action)

A reliable aircraft or engine can still be a maintenance nightmare if there are issues with the other 3 factors.
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For example, the CFM56 engine is stupidly reliable, something like one in-flight shutdown in every 500,000 hours of flight. That's MTBF talking.

IIRC, one of the major issues with the NH90 helicopters was amount of supplies available.

And bringing it back to the F-35, one of the design requirements of the F-35 was that no components were to be buried behind another component. Everything needed to be "Open the access panel and the bad part is right there" which saves an immense amount of man-hours per maintenance item. My automotive comparison is the timing belts on a Subaru: in order to change timing belts you need to remove the radiator! Which is why that task is bid at 6-8 hours work. It's also why every time I was getting timing belts changed, I asked the mechanics what else was accessible now. Changed front main seal on that Subaru every 30k miles, and sometimes sooner.
 

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