Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

in regards to the recent Finnish HX competition where the F-35 was selected,
was the full evaluation ever released? So far I can only find the F-35 points, but not for the other aircraft.
 
Josh_TN said:
I'm pretty sure this particular stretch of road is not in use and was previously used to train Harriers the same way, if it is the same recent exercise I'm thinking of.
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Looks like a RR access road, which means it doesn't get used very often, basically only by RR maintenance of way vehicles.
 
Interesting to see the F-35Bs testing road landings, wonder how long the road tar will last under these conditions giving the fact the heat generated by the F-35B engine on landing and taking off.
 
FighterJock said:
Interesting to see the F-35Bs testing road landings, wonder how long the road tar will last under these conditions giving the fact the heat generated by the F-35B engine on landing and taking off.
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Looks like concrete, not asphalt. Should hold up fine for occasional ops.
 
If anyone wants to check it out on a map, it's here:

http://wikimapia.org/6777578/STOL-101
It actually does look like this bit is closed to vehicles, part of a roads-to-trails conversion. There's about 3000 feet of concrete road here, perhaps deliberately laid as a Harrier strip at one point.
 
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helmutkohl said:
in regards to the recent Finnish HX competition where the F-35 was selected,
was the full evaluation ever released? So far I can only find the F-35 points, but not for the other aircraft.
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Not to my knowledge. At least I haven't seen anything about it in any Finnish mass media (either in Finnish or Swedish). The Finnish Defence Forces have a tradition of being rather secretive when it comes to procurement practices and the size of their weapons inventory (the FDF has, for example, moved quite an amount of its field artillery pieces from the army to the navy in the past, as the number of artillery pieces in the navy need not be disclosed, unlike the number of guns in the army).
 
TomS said:
If anyone wants to check it out on a map, it's here:

http://wikimapia.org/6777578/STOL-101
It actually does look like this bit is closed to vehicles, part of a roads-to-trails conversion. There's about 3000 feet of concrete road here, perhaps deliberately laid as a Harrier strip at one point.
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Looks to be an old part of US101, the Pacific Coast Highway. Parts of that have been closed off and bypassed.
 
TomS said:
It's the Old Pacific Coast Highway near I-5. From what I can see, it is still an active road, but it was also used periodically (as noted above) for Harrier training.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f-35b-just-touched-down-on-the-old-pacific-coast-highway
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Specifically, this stretch was annexed by MCB Camp Pendleton... I used to drive between MCAS El Toro and NAS Miramar via I-5 frequently in 1987-91, and that road section is inside the base perimeter fence (the fence having been moved after I-5 was built).

I-5 is a narrow corridor through the base land there - fences on both sides, and Marines using the beach area for training as well.


STOL 101 Camp Pendleton.jpg

Assault Craft Unit Five is the LCAC base, and they train regularly on the beach within sight of traffic on I-5.

STOL 101 Camp Pendleton large.jpg
 
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So the million dollar question. When will F-35 low rate initial production end and full rate production begin?
 
I'm not sure that matters, because the maintenance issue still hasn't been solved. Ramping up production of airplanes that run into a maintenance wall doesn't seem like the wisest decision.

I noticed the number of highway operations pictures, both F-35 and Eurofighter. Is there any sign that is anything more than a gimmic? That highway operations can be done anywhere beyond 1 or 2 test ranges?
 
FighterJock said:
So the million dollar question. When will F-35 low rate initial production end and full rate production begin?
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It probably doesn't really matter. It's only technically in LRIP now because it hasn't fulfilled all the Milestone C criteria, but the actual construction rate is already near the 150-per-year target for full-rate production anyway.
 
Is it normal for F-35B to do a conventional landing with the lift fan door open?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzAmHurRhg0


"29 September 2023 at Tampere-Pirkkala airport (EFTP), Finland, during Finnish Defence Forces Ruska 23 exercise. The fighter called "fuel left for 9 minutes" before approaching the airfield"
 
What is the advantage of a rolling landing vice a vertical one? Less erosion of the landing surface?
 
When will the RAF/RN start to practice the Rolling Vertical Landing? I do wish that they would hurry up and start to demonstrate the technique soon, that was one of the highlights of the whole F-35B program for me at least for the RAF/RN.
 
NMaude said:
I wonder if the F-35B is capable of VIFFing like the Harrier was?
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Pretty sure it's not. The F-35B's system is set up differently from the Harrier. The rear nozzle can only swivel to a straight down position. Edit: That's not quite true -- you can move the rear nozzle part way for a rolling STO. But the rest remains true.

There's no way to get a corresponding thrust forward of the CG except to open the fan door (effectively a monster air brake) and engage the lift fan. Swiveling the rear nozzle without the lift fan would create a nasty pitch-down moment that is not likely to be useful at all. I suspect it's not even possible in the flight control system because it would tend to make the plane uncontrollable.

And VIFF in the Harrier was kind of a stunt, not something used in real combat. Much like the Cobra, the ability to slow down really fast is impressive but borders on suicidal in any fight that isn't a 1v1.
 
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NMaude said:
It means greater bring back capability for unexpended stores.
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I doubt that’s a major consideration for internal stores. It would have advantages recovering with a lot of fuel, but I would not think ~5000 lbs is breaking the bank bring back wise, and that would be the heaviest possible internal configuration.
 
I actually seen a video of the F35 viffing.

And I have it, wonder if i can attach it.

And I cant so thats annoying, maybe imgur...
https://imgur.com/a/mkK94Ac
View: https://imgur.com/a/mkK94Ac

Let see if that works.

Also heard that the RN been doing Rolling vertical landing since week 3 of their new carrier ops. Like it switch from OH NEW to eyeah this is the normal its boring now.
 
There is no way that's real. One give away is the shape of the nose. Another is the speed and range of motion of the upper door over the lift fan. But mostly it's just because it makes no sense. VIFFing on the Harrier didn't do much as far as adding airframe drag. On the F-35 you're opening a giant airbrake, right at your six, when someone is behind you. And that door almost certainly has relatively low airspeed limits.
 
TomS said:
Pretty sure it's not. The F-35B's system is set up differently from the Harrier. The rear nozzle can only swivel to a straight down position. Edit: That's not quite true -- you can move the rear nozzle part way for a rolling STO. But the rest remains true.
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The rear nozzle can deflect the exhaust flow through 95 degrees in the pitch axis and ±12.25 degrees in the yaw axis.
The lift fan's guide vanes can move from 41.75 to 104 degrees.
This allows the jet to fly backwards.
But yeah VIFFing like the Harrier demonstrated is not possible.
Here's a video showing the rear nozzle in action:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRgcC9eqEJg


Josh_TN said:
I doubt that’s a major consideration for internal stores. It would have advantages recovering with a lot of fuel, but I would not think ~5000 lbs is breaking the bank bring back wise, and that would be the heaviest possible internal configuration.
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The bring back requirement was for a vertical landing with 2 1000lbs bombs and 2 AIM-120. That's about 2700lbs.
Hot weather, more stores, more fuel and weight growth are all concerns so a rolling landing definitely helps even with internal weapons only. Nevermind external stores incl. the gun pod or the 2 SRAMs, both not included in the original requirements.
 
eagle said:
No. But that is not a conventional landing, it's doing a short landing. You can see all the STOVL doors are open and the rear nozzle is pointed downwards. Plus it's obviously way too slow for a conventional landing.
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Why would he do it, on a big runway and short of fuel?
 
eagle said:
The rear nozzle can deflect the exhaust flow through 95 degrees in the pitch axis and ±12.25 degrees in the yaw axis.
The lift fan's guide vanes can move from 41.75 to 104 degrees.
This allows the jet to fly backwards.
But yeah VIFFing like the Harrier demonstrated is not possible.
Here's a video showing the rear nozzle in action:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRgcC9eqEJg




The bring back requirement was for a vertical landing with 2 1000lbs bombs and 2 AIM-120. That's about 2700lbs.
Hot weather, more stores, more fuel and weight growth are all concerns so a rolling landing definitely helps even with internal weapons only. Nevermind external stores incl. the gun pod or the 2 SRAMs, both not included in the original requirements.
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While you are absolutely correct, I also forgot that the B version can not do mk84 sized loads anyway. So mk83 ish with a pair of AIM-120, worst case.

I doubt that the payload is limiting the envelope. I’m going to stick with my original guess and say a roll stop on asphalt or concrete involves a lot less landscaping.
 
sferrin said:
There is no way that's real. One give away is the shape of the nose. Another is the speed and range of motion of the upper door over the lift fan. But mostly it's just because it makes no sense. VIFFing on the Harrier didn't do much as far as adding airframe drag. On the F-35 you're opening a giant airbrake, right at your six, when someone is behind you. And that door almost certainly has relatively low airspeed limits.
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Max allowable airspeed with the main lift door open is 250 knots* - there is an airshow document for the F-35B that has normal speed for a STOVL door conversion pass - which is 200 knots calibrated airspeed (see the bottom of page 9 in the link below):

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/about/initiatives/airshow/F-35B_Airshow_Flight_Profile.pdf

* https://www.codeonemagazine.com/article.html?item_id=110 1 December 2012
The test team at Pax is also exploring the maximum speed end of the STOVL portion of the flight envelope, which is 250 knots. “The buffet and noise is significant when we have the upper lift fan door all the way open, which is an angle of sixty-five degrees, at that speed,” Faidley said. “That’s a flight condition that we can’t evaluate accurately in a simulator. It’s another reason why we do flight testing.”
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