Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

Flyaway said:
Thailand’s request to buy the F-35 has been refused by the US.

The United States has declined to sell its F-35 stealth fighter jets to Thailand over issues with training and technical requirements, the Southeast Asian country's air force said on Thursday.
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https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...-has-denied-request-buy-f-35-jets-2023-05-25/
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It would be great if the Thai Navy could get F-35Bs for used on HTMS Chakri Naruebet. But if they can't get F-35As, it becomes even more unlikely. :(
 
helmutkohl said:
I wonder if the presence of Chinese defense products may have also affected it. Thailand uses naval ships and tanks from there.
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I'd be very surprised if there was NOT (edit) a political aspect to it - Thailand would be very exposed to Chinese monitoring and economic pressure. I'm little surprised it was even considered. Even the Singapore sale was surprising to me.
 
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Josh_TN said:
helmutkohl said:
I wonder if the presence of Chinese defense products may have also affected it. Thailand uses naval ships and tanks from there.
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I'd be very surprised if there was a political aspect to it - Thailand would be very exposed to Chinese monitoring and economic pressure. I'm little surprised it was even considered. Even the Singapore sale was surprising to me.
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The approval process for any ITAR controlled products such as the F-35 is quite a detailed one with many parties involved and reasons for no answers along the way. It could have been one of any. Remember also that Thailand has plenty of US sourced systems (e.g. F-16s) or platforms with US equipment (such as Gripens), so I doubt there was a simple blanket answer as the reason here. The comment "over issues with training and technical requirements" could be interpreted many ways.
 
helmutkohl said:
I wonder if the presence of Chinese defense products may have also affected it. Thailand uses naval ships and tanks from there.
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Unlikely to have been a reason - for example, only in recent years Thailand has been approved to receive Javelin missiles and if the presence of Chinese equipment was a reason this would not have occurred.
 
GTX said:
helmutkohl said:
I wonder if the presence of Chinese defense products may have also affected it. Thailand uses naval ships and tanks from there.
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Unlikely to have been a reason - for example, only in recent years Thailand has been approved to receive Javelin missiles and if the presence of Chinese equipment was a reason this would not have occurred.
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There is a slight difference between a brand new state of tge art Fighter system and one that is as old as I am that been used heavily in 4 different fights.

These type of deals have so many factors its not funny.

But the biggest ones are age, likelihood of it being known, tech level, and how easy it is to counter.

And the Javelin scores very badly on all that.

The F35 is basically the opposite.
 
It's an anti F-35 piece that distorts facts to fit a certain narrative.

Switzerland have a sustainment local contract when Belgium have a partial industrial share of work that they are willing to ramp up.
Belgium acquisition contract is not the worst but in effect the one of the nation that bought Block 4 at the known smaller price. This was emphasized already, especially when we learned what goodies come with Block 4!
 
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bobbymike said:
aonestudio said:
https://www.defenseone.com/defense-...c-cooling-upgrades-likely-hiking-cost/387111/
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Question for aero-engine experts. Is this hyperbole? An area of the engine that should run at 800 Fahrenheit runs at 1600 Fahrenheit? Seems improbable
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Definitely hyperbole. We are probably talking 50 degrees hotter, across the entire flight envelope. The engine runs to a airflow schedule, with a constant airflow at cold inlet temperature, then a constant turbine inlet temperature with decreasing airflow when the inlet temperature increases above point called the Theta break (which is unique to each engine design). Typically on a new engine, that turbine temperature will be below the redline limit. As the engine deteriorates, or more bleed air is extracted, the TIT has to increase to maintain the airflow schedule. Once the redline TIT is reached on hot days, engine performance (airflow) is reduced to keep the TIT from exceeding the redline. Continued deterioration will reduce performance further, and lower the inlet temperature where TIT hits the limit, and also raises the TIT at lower inlet temperatures.

So not only is the engine running hotter, it is running at elevated TIT longer, in more of the flight envelope, all of which accelerates thermal degradation of the engine hot section.

The engine is definitely running hotter longer than anticipated by the engine spec. The probable correct statement is that the needed system cooling is requiring twice the bleed airflow than was specified, not running twice as hot.
 
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Not good about the F-35 software issues, must be software bugs that are causing the issues, I can see the point about not going ahead with the release you cannot have any F-35 falling out of the sky due to faults.
 
If there is an upgraded engine out there, should it not be pursued? It will be needed at some stage.
 
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Same thoughts here Foo Fighter, I think that GE were robbed of the original engine contract when the USAF went with PW, it will be interesting to see if the UK will go for GE instead.
 
FighterJock said:
Same thoughts here Foo Fighter, I think that GE were robbed of the original engine contract when the USAF went with PW, it will be interesting to see if the UK will go for GE instead.
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There's a lot of reports with hindsight which points to the fact that F136 program should not have been scrapped and I feel like we've seen plenty of reasons why.
 
Back when there were two active engine programs (F135 and F136) it made sense. However since then, the F135 has become the established engine with its global support base already well established. To try to introduce a new type now will just dilute the support system (MRO facilities, spares etc etc) for very questionable advantages in return.
 
A different sort of grey:

1687096047711
 
Looking very different to the dark grey that we have been used to over the years, what made them change the colour anyway?
 
FighterJock said:
Same thoughts here Foo Fighter, I think that GE were robbed of the original engine contract when the USAF went with PW, it will be interesting to see if the UK will go for GE instead.
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The UK?

By the time our F-35B are delivered any potential GE engine will not have arrived. Suspect the UK just wants the 2 stages of improvements to go ahead on F135 and leave it at that.
 
What about having the UK F-35Bs getting retrofitted with the GE engines when they finally arrive, I would have thought that it would be possible to do that.
 
FighterJock said:
What about having the UK F-35Bs getting retrofitted with the GE engines when they finally arrive, I would have thought that it would be possible to do that.
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If it was possible it would need to be an exceptionally compelling business case to do so. And I don't think a new replacement engine, even if it was plug and play, would have the evidence in its early days to make that case around long term costs. And as every year any benefits would decrease accordingly.

The only circumstances that I could see it happening is if the F135 experienced serious technical issues relating to its longevity, safety or proved impossible to sustain. And I just can't see that happening so that purchasing $1bn of new engines, changing all the support, retraining etc would be worth it.
 

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