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Les Ailes. old folio size, newsprint French series

memaerobilia

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A recent posting, using illustrations from a 1945 issue of "Les Ailes," prompted my renewed search, here. I have often tried to search for more information on the history or indexes for the obscure French publication, "Les Ailes." Other than the occassional odd single issue on Ebay, it is very seldom encountered. The publication started after WWI, in 23 June 1921. Because it was a large Folio size and printed on acidic newsprint, it is hard to imagine unbound, unprotected issues surviving, intact. Years ago I found 13 of these large bound volumes including all issues from #1 to #811, for 1921- through Dec, 1936, plus an additional volume of #916-#961 for the complete year of 1939. (Incredible dwgs and reports of obscure aircraft) The special feature of these issues were the great many, highly technical reports, dwgs and 3-views of new aircraft designs, world-wide but Heavily French), including many proposed, or experimental aircraft. Being well-bound, they have been protected from air and light, and have somehow, survived in mostly good condition. But extensive handling and laying on scanners would seem quite risky.
I keep trying, but cannot find much (on the Internet)in the way of descriptions, indexes, history, reviews, of this very rare publication. In fact this is the only set I've seen in past 42 years, including many visits to aviation libraries, government libraries and archives, all over the World. I imagine they would be in Musee de L'Air archives? I would like to find out more about them, Especially if some Index exists somewhere. Any help would be appreciated.
 

Caravellarella

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Yes, my entire collection of Les Ailes (all post-Liberation) are on this old newsprint. Some of them have yellowed so much that they are almost brown. It is really difficult to get a good scan of text even at 600 dpi :-[

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Stargazer2006

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Joe, you undoubtedly got your hands on some really rare material here. I would expect the Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace to have them, although it's not a given. I can inquire about this when I visit next time if you wish me to, since I have a contact there.
 

memaerobilia

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Stargazer;
It would be GREAT if you found some index for them. That would allow going to reference dwgs and info,directly, without constant paging throgh ALL the volumes, for topic searches. This paper would not last long with constant page flipping! But ANY historic references or information on this publication would be welcome. Thank you..
Caravellarella;
It is horrifying to think of twisting these fragile pages up and down, and pushing them around on a flatbed scanner. but I assume you may be scanning individual issues, without the large weight and bulk of a bound volume? Also are you using a portable, hand-held page scanner which you can glide down the page for scanning? That would seem to be much better than trying to adjust upside down on a a flatbed scanner..
The few times i have struggled to digitize some useful informaiton, I had to settle for taking photos of the page, with a hand-held camera, and working with that digital image. Not very satisfactory results, most of the time..
 

Caravellarella

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Dear Joe, I have individual unbound issues only, so I don't have to struggle with bound volumes. I am limited to an A4 scanner bed so I have to cut-and-paste to make complete pages. What I wouldn't give for an A2 scanner......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Stargazer2006

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On several occasions (including when I no longer had a scanner) I had to resort to taking pictures of documents with my digital camera... and I must say that it can give some pretty good results when you get the hang of it. Always take the pictures in bright natural light but with no direct light above (to avoid reflections)... Putting the camera right on top at about 50 cms and in manual mode, setting the "macro" function (the little "flower" icon) usually brings pretty good results.
 

Jemiba

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The States Library Berlin has the volumes from 1956 to 1963 as
bound issues and, as the catalogue says the 1938 volume, but still
yet. I couldn't get the latter one.
And yes, taking photos is the only way to get copies, scanning on a
flatbed really would a sin, apart from the fact, that you get those volumes
in the special reading reading only, where you are under constant super-
vision by one of the librarians. And, of course, you have to fill in a form,
listing every page you are taking photos of... ::)
Nevertheless, I'll try to have a look at those volumes, I couldn't get during
my latest visit.
 

memaerobilia

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Those of you familiar with "Les Ailes" have been mentioning volumes of 1939 and later. Looking at all these earlier issues, it became apparent that you may not realize that the first 364 issues of"Les Ailes" were the much Larger size (Elephant Folio size of -approx-14.4 x 22 inches)from issue #1 in June,1921, through May,1928. In June 1928 it switched to the "smaller' size (Demy Folio, approx 12 x 17.5) So, some of the time, I am wrestling with even older and more cumbersome issues.

Jemiba; Have you researched in the magnificent aviation archives/Library of The Deutches Technical Museum, in Berlin? I have been down in those NEW archive facilities, and they are now state of the art, with movable stacks of carefully preserved rare aviation books, dwgs photos, and archives, and always working on getting all the information into computer files, to professional, International Library standards and formats. (When I am not pulled away to snack at KDW. ;D )
 

memaerobilia

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A sample of what we have to work with..in early “Les Ailes” bound volumes,
(Moderators may wish to relocate this post to an appropriate aircraft thread?)
Interesting five engine French Flying boat. January 1927.
By Chantiers de Saint-Nazaire Penhoet. Shipyard aviation works.
There is a lot more text that goes with this article. Camera copies this clear enough to read, fortunately. These are on the 14.5 x 22 inch size pages..
Cantilever, monoplane, 2,100 CV
It takes a lot of time to find these, lay them out, try to get good light, take several variable res images, photo, resize, upload to photobucket and computer files etc.
*But at least I came across the 1927 report on the RAAB-Katzenstein sport plane, for my German friend, who is interested in that mfr.


 

Jemiba

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memaerobilia said:
Jemiba; Have you researched in the magnificent aviation archives/Library of The Deutches Technical Museum, in Berlin?

Thanks for the clue, that it this source is fully available again, tried some years ago, when they still
were in the stage of "re-organisation" and put me off till later. Will try again !
 

Deltafan

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There are a lot of Les ailes issues in Le musée de l'Air. Two years ago i found some Payen articles (years 1936, 1951 and 1955). You can order photos (11 euros each in february 2009) and you can copy as much as you want (but the copy-maker of Le musée is not easy to use and you can damage the originals...). You must too sign one file where you write that you'll use the files for own use only (nothing on the net...). There is other files for commercial use but i don't know what is wrote in it.

It's possible that there is a listing (In the Payen listing the articles of Les ailes were listed). If you want i can call to know (years and listing). It's open only from monday to thursday ant the first saturday of each month.
 

memaerobilia

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Thank you so much, Deltafan; If they had the index/listings for the early years (1921-1936) I think that would help to search for the interesting items, without having to turn ALL those many extra pages, for no reason-and risk damage to the fragile pages.. I would be very interested in obtaining an index/listing, if they have one for the early years.
I'm not certain that photos (scans) from these pages could be worth 11 Euros each, since they are on newsprint, unless you really needed a very rare image that was not available from other sources. And I think that these issues DO HAVE many rare photos and dwgs.
Vadim; I just sent you those high-res scans you asked for. Let me know if all five came through to you.
 

Deltafan

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OK, i'll try to phone on tuesday.

On the webpage of the "bibliothèque", it seems that they have now a computer ("borne informatique") available for the the visitors. It contains maybe listings of the musee too.

http://www.museeairespace.fr/votre-visite/documentation/bibliotheque.html
 

Deltafan

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Hi,

I phoned today to Le musée de l'air. They have all the issues of Les ailes since 1921. The work on a listing has begun but it's not finished. Only the years from 1921 to 1928 are listed today. It's possible to have the listing for free with a webmail (i don't know/remember the word "pièce jointe" in english).
 

Deltafan

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Thanks Stargazer ;)

Then : it's possible to have the listing for free as attachment of a webmail.
 

memaerobilia

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Deltafan said:
Hi,

I phoned today to Le musée de l'air. They have all the issues of Les ailes since 1921. The work on a listing has begun but it's not finished. Only the years from 1921 to 1928 are listed today. It's possible to have the listing for free with a webmail (i don't know/remember the word "pièce jointe" in english).

I have missed this response, until today.?
That is wonderful news, Deltafan. Thank you, so much, for finding this useful information. Would you possibly have an Internet link to the specific page, or request form for that list of 1921-1928 issued? I have all those issues. My French is not very good. It is mostly limited to recognizing aviation terms. (But DOES get a little better on the rare times, after I am in France for a week or so..)
 

Deltafan

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It is possible to have the listing (1921 to 1928) as attachment of an email. I'll try to phone the next tuesay to know the email of the documentation.
 

Stargazer2006

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You can also use this online form to contact them:
http://www.museeairespace.fr/services-generiques/contact/centre-de-documentation.html
 

Caravellarella

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Stargazer2006 said:
You can also use this online form to contact them:
http://www.museeairespace.fr/services-generiques/contact/centre-de-documentation.html

I wonder if their collection of Les Ailes is as browned and decrepit as mine; my copies run from beige to tan; along with cream, ochre, tea bag, umber, tan, sand, magnolia, stone, American Tan, burnished beech......
 

memaerobilia

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Caravellarella; Now that is Very funny ;D

Actually, it makes me feel fortunate that my issues are mostly in Good condition. Having ben bound and protected from most air & light, I can still EVEN hold the edge of the pages (of MOST volumes)and let them flip past, without them breaking!
But not going to do that, other than as a test.. Oh, how nice ANY index would be, to save on their handling, and in locating odd and interesting aircraft reports.
I have the following bound volumes (Only two of them have loose hard covers, -but still good binding of the issues, themselves..the rest are tight) and it should be noted that some volumes were printed on blue-colored paper? Not the best choice for contrast..Some samples from 1921 and 1939 are shown below..The entire page text is very readable in the high resolution image (only ONE sample of that, as the size of file may be a problem for some viewers..)
First three Bound volumes are larger size than rest
Year(s) Issue #s
1921-23 1-132
1924-26 133-289
1927-28 290-363
1928 364-393
1929 394-445
1930 446-497
1931 498-545
1931-33 546-602
1933 603-654
1934 654-706
1935 707-758
1936 759-811
1939 916-961











 

Stargazer2006

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memaerobilia said:
Having ben bound and protected from most air & light, I can still EVEN hold the edge of the pages (of MOST volumes)and let them flip past, without them breaking!
But not going to do that, other than as a test..

And yet that's probably the only way to make old magazines last. Flicking the pages regularly keeps some elasticity and prevents them from falling to pieces. At least that's my experience of it...
 
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