Le Fana de l'Aviation April 2008 issue: Mirage Mach 3 and 4 projects

[Antonio]

This time is true!.

In the March's Le Fana issue it is a preview of contents for next April 2008 issue and the Mirage "Secret Projects" Mach 3 and 4 designs article will be included.


I'm anxious to see it:

 

[Michel Van]

A MACH 4 Mirage ! ?

I try imaging that Plane:
like Mirage IV
the Aircraft Skin made from Inconel, big Airintake like a MiG-25

but were to hell get SNECMA the Engine for "Le Monster" ?
we talk over some thing like J-58.

I Think "Le Monster" had fly with 4 engine = 2 Jet engine and 2 Ramjets

"Le Monster" ?
how you want call a Mirage with that speed !!

by way were i get "Le Fana de l'Aviation" ?

 

[boxkite]

by way were i get "Le Fana de l'Aviation" ?

Try it here

http://www.editions-lariviere.fr/site/abonnement.php?prov_id=191

 

[Deltafan]

We spoke a little about this here

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1491.0.html

(somebody can say me if he can connect with this link ? It could be the end of my web-problems)

And at the end i wrote this :

In the Fana of march there is the preview of the Fana of april and the first article will be :

-Mach 4, les secrets de Dassault

They show a little photo with two ("Mirage 6000" like) white lateral air intakes, the black ahead frame, the cockpit and the black nose of a plane. On the little black and white photo the plane has a F-106 like cockpit with a thin central metal part. With the photo there are the words :

A mach 3 ou mach 4 dans un "Mirage"...

 

[Antonio]

Deltafan, the link you posted works ok

 

[Deltafan]

Thanks for your answer Pometablava, but I tried some things on other sites and only a part of my problems are out


But you brought the proof for the Fana's preview for april with the first draw. Very good ! 8)

What do you think about this draw chaps ?

Very exciting isn't it ;D

 

[MIRAGE 4000]

Well friends, when you see the Mach 4 projects, you will be ....(what is the words in english to "Sur le cul" ????) ;D

"Super Team" on drawings : Jozef and Alanqua

Rendez-vous at the end of March on le Fana for this French Secret projects history !

 

[Antonio]

"Super Team" on drawings : Jozef and Alanqua

"Sur le cul"=

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

If you could find an easy way for English speakers to order it, please post details. Last time I wanted Fana (for your SO4060 article) I was luckily in Brussels and picked up a copy easily enough.

 

[Barrington Bond]

Not sure abour Sur Le Cul but a suitable British idiom for it may be Blow Your Socks Off!

Regards,
Barry

 

[Deltafan]

If you could find an easy way for English speakers to order it, please post details. Last time I wanted Fana (for your SO4060 article) I was luckily in Brussels and picked up a copy easily enough.

If somebody can bring here a copy of the order bill (page 16 in the last Fana), you can send to the Fana the copy with your 16 CB number, the 3 last number in the back of the CB, the date end (month and year) of the CB, your signature and the date of the signature.

The problem is the "frais de port" pour l'étranger (expedition tax for the foreign). It changes with the land and i could not found a place (in le Fana monthly or in Le Fana website) where it's wrote (each tax for each land).



I think that Le Fana 461 is maybe available tomorrow

 

[Deltafan]

Nothing in my post box today


I phoned to Le Fana : the price for all foreign lands is 6,10 + 2,60 = 8,70 euros

To order and pay with CB, you can write there :

Fana de l’aviation
Espace Clichy
Immeuble Sirius
9, allée Jean-Prouvé
92587 Clichy Cedex
Fax : +33 (0)1 41 40 35 12

or there

E-mail vente par correspondance : vpc@editions-lariviere.fr

 

[Antonio]

I'm waiting my suscription to be delivered as usual, between last days of March and April's first week.

 

[MIRAGE 4000]

Saw le Fana with .... MD750 on cover

Good lecture !!!

If you have any question ....

(well, think it will be interesting to write the english text !)

Now, you know the secret Mirage Mach3/Mach4 program !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Deltafan]

Not now... :-\

I hope for tomorrow, once more again

 

[Archibald]

hehehehe.... got it 5 hours ago.
Wonderfull! Thought about this forum while reading the article, and not only because of lot of members contributing to it.

One of Dassault mach.4 project REALLY looks like the Tu-60MS (which had been heavily discussed here)

 

[Deltafan]

I got it !

But at first, i must say that we had a 3 views drawing of one of these planes since a lot of time :

The "Mirage 6000" that we know here (drawing in Aviation magazine from Dassault at Le Bourget 1969) was not a fake

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=180.0;attach=1286;image

It was the MD 750 project !


The article goes from page 18 to page 28.

I will try to make a (very) little digest tomorrow

 

[Deltafan]

The cover (if you can open my link)

http://www.journaux.fr/images/revues/L9853.jpg

 

[MIRAGE 4000]

The MD750 was not in the Mach 3/Mach 4 program. All the projects were like the Mirage III, not the MIG 25. The big question is : what are the "MD" number of the projects.... ???

 

[Archibald]

I got it !

But at first, i must say that we had a 3 views drawing of one of these planes since a lot of time :

The "Mirage 6000" that we know here (drawing in Aviation magazine from Dassault at Le Bourget 1969) was not a fake

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=180.0;attach=1286;image

It was the MD 750 project !


The article goes from page 18 to page 28.

I will try to make a (very) little digest tomorrow

How to say that ? I'm the person which send the Mirage 6000 to Le Fana de l'aviation in november 2006.
But before that I've seen the Aviation Magazine pic of 1969 on to various forum, such as the Key Publishing board, the whatif modelers forum... it's Deino (to my knowldge) which introduce this pic into the web.

Voila...

 

[Antonio]

Deino introduced here a scan from a drawing which was published in Air Enthusiast in the "letters" section. Tony Buttler sent this drawing to AE.

I guess Tony get the drawing from Aviation Magazine.

More info about the original Aviation Magazine (from which I'm a happy owner):

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,180.0.html

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,839.30.html (see reply 31 and specially reply 62 for Archibald..your memory doesn't works very good mon ami ). It is funny because you always attribute to other persons the scans I have sent you in the past :'(. Don't worry, it's ok.

Regards,

Antonio

 

[Deltafan]

I got it !

But at first, i must say that we had a 3 views drawing of one of these planes since a lot of time :

The "Mirage 6000" that we know here (drawing in Aviation magazine from Dassault at Le Bourget 1969) was not a fake

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=180.0;attach=1286;image

It was the MD 750 project !


The article goes from page 18 to page 28.

I will try to make a (very) little digest tomorrow

How to say that ? I'm the person which send the Mirage 6000 to Le Fana de l'aviation in november 2006.
But before that I've seen the Aviation Magazine pic of 1969 on to various forum, such as the Key Publishing board, the whatif modelers forum... it's Deino (to my knowldge) which introduce this pic into the web.

Voila...

Euh, I don't understand the problem ? ???

I say only that the "MD-750" was known because of the 3 views drawing that is on the net and which was named "Mirage 6000" on the net.

Mirage 4000 said before that the 3 views drawing known as "Mirage 6000" was a fake and was not part of the "Mirage mach 3-4" program. But it is in the new article in le Fana and named "MD 750".

I don't have said all the story of the "Mirage 6000" on the web. It was too long for me to search and find and it was not my purpose. I only wanted to say that it was known, and that the real name of the "Mirage 6000" is "MD 750".

I know that you are the person which send the 3 views drawing to Le Fana. And i can maybe find (with maybe a lot of time) the first post about this 3 views on the net (thanks Deino) but once more again it was not the purpose.

Where is a problem ? ???

Because of my bad english we can speak in french. It will maybe better for understanding.

 

[Antonio]

Because of my bad english we can speak in french. It will maybe better for understanding.

You can use the PM option.

 

[Deltafan]

The MD750 was not in the Mach 3/Mach 4 program. All the projects were like the Mirage III, not the MIG 25.
(...)

Actually i must admit that i don't understand the place of the MD 750.
Why do you said before that it was a "fake" ?
Was it only a "documentation publicitaire" (publicity documentation ?) for the program ? (your words page 28)
Was there absolutelly no study about this plane ?
If yes, why is there this (beautiful !) "maquette de bureau" (office mock-up ?) ? Is it only a symbolic or decorative object ? What is the year of its building, 1969 ?
And ahem : from when can i legally use this office mock-up as my avatar ? ;D

Edit : another question : between 1975 and 1980 (it's old. I don't remember the good year) i red in an article of "Aviation magazine" about french jet engines that the next fighter jet engine for the post M-53 would be the "Dextre" jet engine with 12 000 kgp. But i never seen something about this "dextre" after this article (and the post M-53 was the M-88 with 7 500 kgp). Did you see something about this jet engine when you made your search for the new article in Le Fana ? I ask this because you speak page 23 about the M51-30 with 12 000 kgp.

 

[Deltafan]

Because of my bad english we can speak in french. It will maybe better for understanding.

You can use the PM option.

OK, if i don't understand the next english post of Archie

 

[Archibald]

Thank you very much.
I appreciate a lot this comment, delightful!

Seems there's lot of misunderstanding there, sorry for that...

 

[MIRAGE 4000]

hello kids !

some answers :

The MD 750 was not in the archives when I saw them. And that's why I said it was a "fake". But Dassault sent me the photos of the MD750 latter. It is a project, and Dassault draw many projects at the end of the 60'. The MD 750 was not proposed in the official "Mach 3/Mach 4 program, but it is a study of Mach 3 fighter. Date for MD 750 ? Circa 1969....

For Snecma Dextre I have no information

 

[Antonio]

Thanks Mirage4000, everything is clear now about the MD 750. Even its designation is known now, so definitively forget about Mega-Mirage and Mirage 6000.

(Still waiting for my Le Fana copy )

 

[Deltafan]

hello kids !
some answers :
The MD 750 was not in the archives when I saw them. And that's why I said it was a "fake". But Dassault sent me the photos of the MD750 latter. It is a project, and Dassault draw many projects at the end of the 60'. The MD 750 was not proposed in the official "Mach 3/Mach 4 program, but it is a study of Mach 3 fighter. Date for MD 750 ? Circa 1969....
For Snecma Dextre I have no information

Thanks for the answer

When we read the article in Le Fana, it seems that there is still a lot to show about the Dassault and others french projects of these times.

 

[Antonio]

We'll wait for more articles about post 1960 French unbuilt designs then

 

[Antonio]

Found my Le Fana copy when arrived home this evening and toke a quick look after enjoying Dr Who on TV.

I think it's probably one of the most interesting Le Fana mags for our community!!!
It is full of unbuilt projects. Not only the "super-incredibly-marvelous" Mach 3 - Mach 4 fighter project compilation, but also the Bel Geddes airliner by Alan J. Furier, the Maul photo-rocket, Roland de Narbonne's article on aircraft design excentricities and René Francillon's monographic on the JRF-5...who can ask for more in a single magazine!!


Bravo for Joseph Gatial and Alain Ratinaud drawings and thanks to Alexis Rocher for that article. Le Fana is the best again!!!

 

[Deltafan]

(...)
I think it's probably one of the most interesting Le Fana mags for our community!!!
It is full of unbuilt projects. Not only the "super-incredibly-marvelous" Mach 3 - Mach 4 fighter project compilation, but also the Bel Geddes airliner by Alan J. Furier, the Maul photo-rocket, Roland de Narbonne's article on aircraft design excentricities and René Francillon's monographic on the JRF-5...who can ask for more in a single magazine!!
Bravo for Joseph Gatial and Alain Ratinaud drawings and thanks to Alexis Rocher for that article.
(...)

Yes

We waited a lot ;D but now we enjoy more than a lot

PS for Jemiba : i just add that there is a drawing of a Payen (Pa-361) too among the aircraft design "excentricities '()"

 

[Skybolt]

May I say something a little rude ? I am not happy of the treatment author De Narbonne decided to give to his piece. Some of the designs aren't "excentricities" at all (for example, the Dassault VG executive, back in the '60-early '70s EVERYTHING was expected to go VG), and some are totally out of center (pun intended): the way the NYT drafter treated the leading edge of the Seversky super-clipper's wing doesn't elicit him to decry the design itself. Not to mention the Bleriot's early transoceanic transport with a boat-like fuselage: up to the early '40s there was real concern in providing the planes traveling on the sea a boat-like underbody to allow them to go down safely in an emergency (Piaggio's airliners, for example). And, finally, from a purely aerodynamic and structural point of view, the Bel Geddes project (in spite of its magnificiency) is less "flyable" than the majority of the supposed "excentricies".
In spite of this, a real great issue.

 

[Skybolt]

Uh, forgot an unshameful request... what about having published here the complete series of the original 3-view drawings of the Dassault fighters

 

[Overkiller]

Just a quick question:

Is it possible to acquire back issues of Le Fana? I have been financially overstretched the last little while so I was unable to purchase the April issue, but now I am back in the black financially so I would like to purchase the magazine. I have visited the website but my lack of understanding of the french langauge has rendered me unable to see any obvious link or button that lets me order a back issue.

Cheers

Duncan

 

[Deltafan]

To order, i think that you can write to this e-mail :

vpc@editions-lariviere.fr

The price to order for the foreign is 8,70 euros

 

[renax]

here:
http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/MD750/MD7500.htm

 

[Deltafan]

(...)
another question : between 1975 and 1980 (it's old. I don't remember the good year) i red in an article of "Aviation magazine" about french jet engines that the next fighter jet engine for the post M-53 would be the "Dextre" jet engine with 12 000 kgp. But i never seen something about this "dextre" after this article (and the post M-53 was the M-88 with 7 500 kgp). Did you see something about this jet engine when you made your search for the new article in Le Fana ? I ask this because you speak page 23 about the M51-30 with 12 000 kgp.

(...)
For Snecma Dextre I have no information

An answer :

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1979/1979%20-%200133.PDF

The "Dispositif Experimental à Turbine REfroidie" (Experimental Device with Cooled Turbine ?) was finally used for the M-88 and not for a M-53 size follower.