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Kawanishi heavy flying boat projects (K-120, K-200, etc.)

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hesham

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I saw in Japanese book about aircraft and space this aircraft ,it was long range heavy jet bomber
and the book not explane it was fiction or true.the book is writen by Japanese language and
a little English.
 

Skybolt

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Only really HEAVY japanes project with jet during WW2 that I know is Kawanishi K-200, a long range flying boat
 

hesham

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Hallo my dears,

there were some of projects, I know a little about it,
can you give me a more informations ?,if you could.
first,we know Kawanishi K-60 and K-120 were a heavy flying boats,
K-100 was experimental landplane bomber and K-200 was a six
turbojets long range heavy flying boat.
the projects are:


Kawanishi A8K single seat fighter for 20-Shi.
Kawanishi TB six engined super heavy bomber.
Mitsubishi A8M twin boom fighter.

have you a more informations ?
 

ChuckAnderson

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Hi hesham!

You might try going to the following website:
j-aircraft.com
Japanese Aircraft,Ships and Historical Research
http://www.j-aircraft.com/

Chuck
 

Sandi

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Can anyone give me more info about Kawanishi K-60, K-120 and K-200 heavy flying boat projects(images and tech info)?
Thanks.
 

elmayerle

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interesting concept, but I wonder at the engine position. This engineer would prefer a rather farther forward position so that the inlet flow is not distorted by flow over the wing.
 

hesham

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My dear Tophe,

In A-Z magazine they decleared that it was a really project.

The Kawanishi G9K was twin engined attack bomber and anther
biplane fighter to Itoh,but I don't know any thing about
the last aircraft except it was a single seat biplane fitted with
80 hop Gnome engine and had a speed of 160 km/h.
 

Antonio

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003 Project Z Kawanishi Gunzan
As Lark posted, by late 1942 Chikuhei Nakajima (founder of the Nakajima Company) knew about the US B-29 and B-36 projects decided that Japan needed a bomber capable to bomb the USA from bases in Japan. Since IJA and IJN representatives shown no interest, he started it as "Project Z" on his company own resources. Other companies were later invited by the Japanese Armed Forces to submit designs for an extended-range bomber.
Kawanishi proposed an elliptical-winged, six engined aircraft as the Navy 19-shi bomber that would be designated the "Transoceanic Bomber".

Source: "The Second Attack on Pearl Harbour. Operation K and other Japanese Attempts to Bomb America in WWII". by Steve Horn. Naval Institute Press
 

Justo Miranda

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Hi,

Many thanks for helping me classify this material.

Cheers,
Justo
 

Pelzig

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There was no competition to the K-200 outside of other projects Kawanishi was working on such as the H11K Soku, K-60, and their work on production aircraft.

It is my guess that Kawanishi did not spend much time on the K-200. For one, they were told to cut back on construction of flying boats to concentrate on fighters. They were also working on the H11K transport (it was not a bomber) flying boat. Plus, in no way could the Ne-20 turbojet have moved such a boat, even with six of them, with any speed. They may have been waiting for the Ne-330 before moving ahead but if you think about it, to obtain any sort of range equal to or surpassing the H8K then in service, the bulk of the K-200 would have been fuel to feed all six of those engines. To me, the K-200 would not have offered much of a benefit over the H8K and I suspect Kawanishi figured that out as well.

The one illustration I've seen of the K-200 looks much like the Russian Beriev R-1.


hesham said:
My dear lark,

can you tell us about the other projects which competed kawanishi K-200 ?,
please.
 

T-50

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Hi guys I agree that the position of the engines above the wings is not aerodynamically the right place
I hope that the Kawanishi engineers placed the engines inside the wings. This is aerodynamically better
are there other artist impressions of this project? I heard that the Japanese were planning more new types of flying boats at the end of ww2 I'm curious about these projects is there any data about them?
regards T-50
 

Pelzig

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The picture of the K-200 is, I'm certain, largely speculation and post-war speculation at that. I asked Shorzoe Abe about the K-200 and he had never heard of it and this coming from a fellow who is pretty familiar with Japanese aircraft, especially Kawanishi.

The position of the engines is to protect them from ingesting sea spray which, I'm sure, would quickly corrode and destroy engines already fickle.

Kawanishi may have designed the K-200 but I suspect they didn't put much stock in it. First of all, they had to wait until the successors to the Ne 20 were produced as the Ne 20, even six of them, would not have granted the K-200 any respectable speed, let alone heave the boat off the water. Second, turbojets are very thirsty and the bulk of the K-200 would have been fuel to feed all of those engines. By consequence, the K-200 would have had a pretty weak operational range that was less than flying boats already in service, namely the H8K. In addition, reliability of those early turbojets would have been suspect. With operating lives in the few hours, the K-200 couldn't wander far from base lest engine failure strand it. Unless the K-200 was to be built out of wood (like the H11K), there was little metals to spare for such a project. Finally, Kawanishi was already swamped with other work, namely fighter production after having been told to concentrate on them in lieu of flying boats. This issue saw the K-60 canned. The loss of the mock-up of the H11K Soku also saw no further interest in the big flying boat in light of the late war situation.

Interestingly, that post-war speculative illustration of the K-200 has a resemblance to the Beriev R-1.
 

Tzoli

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I can too provide a drawing or two for this K-200 Flying boat.

From the Book:
Japanese Secret Projects: Experimental Aircrafts of the IJA and IJN 1939-1945 by Edwin M. Dyer, III
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5218/swscan000028.png

And a Kawanishi H8K Emily redrawn in a similar way by my friend (The K-200 actually very similar to the H8K in my opinion) I would call it H12K
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/623/h12k.gif
Original:
http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/sww2/h8k/h8k-1.gif

I posted them as links because I do not know how should I post them as resized pictures, they are large ones indeed.
 

windswords

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Does anyone have an image of the K-60 or K-120 projects?
 

Pelzig

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The Strange Mechanism website has this on the K-60:

"Main Engine : Mitsubishi "Nu-Go" Water Cooling Twin Engine (5,000hp) X 4 (Steam Turbine Air Cooling fan equip)

Range : 9,260Km"

No image, though.
 

Pelzig

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So, what are peoples thoughts on this most enigmatic Kawanishi project? Some believe it was a flying boat project, a successor to the K-60 (K-60 + K-60 = K-120?), or the predecessor to the H11K Soku. But nobody that I've read can say with 100% certainty what it was let alone anything about it other than the designation.


I contend, that, without some sort of evidence to suggest it was a flying boat, it may not be a flying boat project at all. Kawanishi wasn't all seaplanes and flying boats. We see this in the K-90 (J3K1 Jinpu) and the K-100 (bomber project).


Thoughts one way or the other?
 

blackkite

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I can't find any information for Kawanishi Ki-120 in Japanese sources.
 

windswords

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Do we even know for sure this project was real? Or did it appear on some list after the war with no confirmation from an official source?

Blackkite,

Were the records of Kawanishi's projects destroyed after the war? Or, might they be in a company archive?
 

Pelzig

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The K-120 has been around for some years. But what hasn't been around for those few years is what it was.


I honestly believe that the K-120 existed within Kawanishi. What I don't agree with is the assumption some people make that the K-120 was a flying boat.


What is curious is that there seems to have been a "double designation" within Kawanishi. For example, the J3K1 Jinpu being the KX-2 and K-90 and what some believe the KX-1 being the K-100 bomber. So, now you have to consider that perhaps the KX-8 (which was the H11K) was the K-120. Or perhaps the K-120 was the Kawanishi designation for the follow-on to the J3K1, the J6K1.


I'd be content learning at least what type of plane the K-120 was. :)



windswords said:
Do we even know for sure this project was real? Or did it appear on some list after the war with no confirmation from an official source?

Blackkite,

Were the records of Kawanishi's projects destroyed after the war? Or, might they be in a company archive?
 

Pelzig

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But even he doesn't even list anything about the K-120, only the K-60 and K-200. And I half suspect the information given in Guiseppe Picarella's "Japanese Experimental Transport Aircraft of the Pacific War" about the K-120 came off this site. Even Picarella doesn't say with any definite certainty that the K-120 was a flying boat, although he believes it likely was.


I did contact Akira Sahara to see what he has to say on where he found out about the K-120.


hesham said:
Hi,


a small info about Kawanishi K-120,it was a heavy flying boat project;


http://www.oocities.org/sadakichi09/navy/IJNA.htm
 

Stargazer2006

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For what it's worth...

the Japanese Navy ordered at Nakajima company to design the Nakajima G10N1 Fugaku(Mount Fuji)Ultra Long Range and Heavy Bomber with six engines, derived from italian designs sended for italian aircraft to arriving at Manchukuo expressly for Japanese Navy. the Kawanishi design other bomber similar, the Kawanishi TB Super Heavy Bomber and ones long range heavy Flying Boats with same purpose how Kawanishi K-60 Heavy Flying Boat, Kawanishi K-120 Heavy Flying Boat and Kawanishi K-200 Heavy Turbojet Flying Boat. and Nakajima why developed the Nakajima G8N1 "Renzan" (allied codename Rita) Heavy Bomber.
Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Japanese-Nuclear-Energy-Development
 

Pelzig

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Well, sadly, it isn't worth much. I seriously doubt that the Fiat B.R.20 which the Japanese operated in the second Sino-Japanese War was any kind of influence on the Fugaku (since it sounds like the writer is confusing that fact). And if this article is implying that Italy passed to Japan information on super heavy bomber projects for the Fugaku program, that would eye opening. Since the article speaks of the Japanese nuclear weapon program (which existed and I recommend Robert K. Wilcox' "Japan's Secret War"), off the bat, the G8N would never reach the U.S. and while the K-200 is mentioned, the reality is, it would never reach the U.S. either. I need to re-read Wilcox' book but from what I remember, the IJA and IJN, as always, kept their work to themselves. They were able to get enriched uranium but it was so minuscule in amount as to be worthless for fission in a nuclear bomb though there was talk of a "dirty bomb". I can certainly see the Fugaku and TB (19-shi G9K?) as nuke carriers but there isn't any evidence to show that they were being built exclusively to deliver such munitions.


In terms of the K-120, seems like whomever wrote this just pulled from the same site. Fact remains, nobody has come up with even a scrap of information. Could it be bogus? Absolutely. Shorzoe Abe doesn't seem to think even the K-200 existed. He never did get back with me concerning the K-60 and K-120.


Wilcox says, however, that a lot of the immediate post-war Japanese nuclear program information remains classified. So, the story isn't closed yet.



Stargazer2006 said:
For what it's worth...

the Japanese Navy ordered at Nakajima company to design the Nakajima G10N1 Fugaku(Mount Fuji)Ultra Long Range and Heavy Bomber with six engines, derived from italian designs sended for italian aircraft to arriving at Manchukuo expressly for Japanese Navy. the Kawanishi design other bomber similar, the Kawanishi TB Super Heavy Bomber and ones long range heavy Flying Boats with same purpose how Kawanishi K-60 Heavy Flying Boat, Kawanishi K-120 Heavy Flying Boat and Kawanishi K-200 Heavy Turbojet Flying Boat. and Nakajima why developed the Nakajima G8N1 "Renzan" (allied codename Rita) Heavy Bomber.
Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Japanese-Nuclear-Energy-Development
 

Stargazer2006

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I agree with you, the existence of the K-120 and K-200 is speculative at best. I have found no reference to them in the many sources I have read, and I truly wonder where hesham got them from in the first place.

Going back to the K- list used by Kawanishi during the war, there are notable gaps:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8767.0/all.html

However, there are four distinct Kawanishi projects contemporary or posterior to the K-90 that do not appear in the list:
  • 17-Shi Attack Bomber (sometimes found as G9K Gunzan but 1942 date contradicts this). Did this project exist at all?
  • 18-Shi Interceptor Fighter = J6K Jinpu (1943) (or was this just a variant of K-90?)
  • 20-Shi Carrier Fighter = A8K (1945)
  • Special Attacker (Project) = Baika (1945)
In all logic, the A8K and Baika at least would have received a designation such as K-110 or above. Perhaps the K-120 was simply one of these two?
 

blackkite

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blackkite said:
I can't find any information for Kawanishi Ki-120 in Japanese sources.
Japanese sources means mainly published books, inter net site. I did not contact to Shinmaywa directly.
I believe if Shinmaywa have some data for Ki-120, perhaps Japanese aeronautical historians already got them and published the books.
 

Stargazer2006

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Merged from several topics.

The Kawanishi H11K1-L "Soku" Transport Flying Boat has a separate topic:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14578.0/all.html

The postwar Kawanishi KX-03 giant 500-ton flying boat can be found here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17775.0/all.html
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6111.msg237465.html#msg237465
 

hesham

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Great work my dear Skyblazer,I hope we do this in every generic topics,
(which I responded on many of them,my apology about that).
 

blackkite

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Ummm....KX-03. ;D
 
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