KAI KF-21 Boramae (KFX Korean Indigenous Fighter program)

Ainen said:
Umigami said:
Low RCS air superiority configuration:
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I believe it's more about T:W and drag than it is about RCS.
Don't want to be eyeballing, but RCS with a nice set of corner reflectors under your wings doesn't work very well.
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I think it's still pretty low from front aspect, still good in intercept mission when bogie and us approaching each other.
 
Umigami said:
I make some better resolution pic with available pic online:

Low RCS air superiority configuration:
View attachment 673496
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OMG this is stealth aviation porn. It certainly looks like a F-22 (thank you, Captain Obvious) except much sleeker. And sexy as hell.

I want three 1/72 scale models of it for Christmas !!!
 
question is.. can the semi recessed bays (which are normally for meteor and amraam?) be used for short range missiles?
if so, then it would make more sense (for RCS reduction) that two meteors and 2 Iris-T or whatever htey are opting for) be located there instead on the wings
 
helmutkohl said:
question is.. can the semi recessed bays (which are normally for meteor and amraam?) be used for short range missiles?
Click to expand...
All short-range missiles start from rails. Also, while not strictly a necessity (some 1950s aircraft did indeed carry WVR missiles underneath), the underwing position gives a much better view to the seeker (it actually gets to see upwards).
 
Ainen said:
helmutkohl said:
question is.. can the semi recessed bays (which are normally for meteor and amraam?) be used for short range missiles?
Click to expand...
All short-range missiles start from rails. Also, while not strictly a necessity (some 1950s aircraft did indeed carry WVR missiles underneath), the underwing position gives a much better view to the seeker (it actually gets to see upwards).
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"Lock-on after launch, or LOAL, is a capability of missile systems to lock-on to its target after being launched from its carrier vehicle. The term is normally used in reference to airborne weapons, especially air-to-air missiles. LOAL is an important part of modern weapon systems as it allows the weapons to be carried internally to increase stealth and then acquire the target once it has left the launching aircraft."

...e.g. IRIS-T
 
Essentially all modern missiles have LOAL. But it doesn't replace LOBL outright - at very least, as a reserve option.
Locking seeker on the rail ensures that your missile will lock and attack exactly that you want (and locking in the first place).
 
Is rail launch a must for IRIS-T or can it be ejected as well?
 

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Ainen said:
helmutkohl said:
question is.. can the semi recessed bays (which are normally for meteor and amraam?) be used for short range missiles?
Click to expand...
All short-range missiles start from rails. Also, while not strictly a necessity (some 1950s aircraft did indeed carry WVR missiles underneath), the underwing position gives a much better view to the seeker (it actually gets to see upwards).
Click to expand...
helmutkohl said:
question is.. can the semi recessed bays (which are normally for meteor and amraam?) be used for short range missiles?
if so, then it would make more sense (for RCS reduction) that two meteors and 2 Iris-T or whatever htey are opting for) be located there instead on the wings
Click to expand...
Do externaly mounting 2 short AAM like Iris T increase its RCS that significantly?
 
Umigami said:
Do externaly mounting 2 short AAM like Iris T increase its RCS that significantly?
Click to expand...

This needs statistics.

However, The effects of the external pylons can be seen below. X-band (8 GHz) Horizontal polarization, PEC model.

Without External PylonWith External Pylon
KFXNoMissile.png KFX-withmissileexternal.png
NomIssiles.png With Missiles.png
KFX-NoMissile-Xband(8Ghz).png KFX-DogfightMissile-Xband(8GHz).png

As one can see in the image, the missile caused relatively broad and strong spike within the forward direction of the aircraft. These lobes does not present in the "clean" airframe.

With Missiles2.png NomIssiles2.png


Therefore the external pylon does present more risk of increased enemy detection range, considering the relatively wide about 40 degrees of lobes within the middle of frontal aspect. If the area is constantly present it can be detected at considerable distance. The instanteneous magnitude of the lobe is about 0.79 - 1 sqm in strength.

Median wise the RCS does not change much between 2 pylons vs no pylons. With differences of about 0.5-1 dB.
 

KAI prepares for KF-21 first-flight milestone

Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) is on track to conduct the first flight of its KF-21 Boramae multirole fighter aircraft, buoyed by the completed development of the...
www.janes.com

A spokesperson from KAI told Janes on 21 February that the company is preparing a First Flight Readiness Review (FFRR) and is ensuring the preparedness of components and line-replaceable units (LRUs) for the event.
The KF-21's first flight is scheduled for July, the spokesperson confirmed.
The preparation process is supported by continuing flight trials, undertaken by the KF-21 Combined Test Team (CTT) comprising KAI, the Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF), and the country's Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA).

The KAI spokesperson said that by June the CTT will be operating six flyable KF-21 prototypes and two structural prototypes for assessments. Of the six flyable aircraft, four are single-seat and two are twin-seat platforms.

“Following common but essential ground and avionics tests and check-outs, each flyable KF-21 prototype is performing different kinds of trials and evaluations,” said the KAI spokesperson. “For example, if prototype number one undertakes an engine-aircraft compatibility test, prototype number three will undertake a ground vibration test.”

However, following the first flight of the aircraft in July, the testing strategy will change. “After the KF-21's first flight, each prototype will have a different flight mission for evaluation,” said the KAI spokesperson without elaborating.

The spokesperson added that the development of an essential element of the new KF-21 fighter – its AESA radar – has been completed and is now undergoing extensive performance assessments.
Click to expand...
 
aonestudio said:

KAI prepares for KF-21 first-flight milestone

Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) is on track to conduct the first flight of its KF-21 Boramae multirole fighter aircraft, buoyed by the completed development of the...
www.janes.com

A spokesperson from KAI told Janes on 21 February that the company is preparing a First Flight Readiness Review (FFRR) and is ensuring the preparedness of components and line-replaceable units (LRUs) for the event.
The KF-21's first flight is scheduled for July, the spokesperson confirmed.
The preparation process is supported by continuing flight trials, undertaken by the KF-21 Combined Test Team (CTT) comprising KAI, the Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF), and the country's Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA).

The KAI spokesperson said that by June the CTT will be operating six flyable KF-21 prototypes and two structural prototypes for assessments. Of the six flyable aircraft, four are single-seat and two are twin-seat platforms.

“Following common but essential ground and avionics tests and check-outs, each flyable KF-21 prototype is performing different kinds of trials and evaluations,” said the KAI spokesperson. “For example, if prototype number one undertakes an engine-aircraft compatibility test, prototype number three will undertake a ground vibration test.”

However, following the first flight of the aircraft in July, the testing strategy will change. “After the KF-21's first flight, each prototype will have a different flight mission for evaluation,” said the KAI spokesperson without elaborating.

The spokesperson added that the development of an essential element of the new KF-21 fighter – its AESA radar – has been completed and is now undergoing extensive performance assessments.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

This is truly excellent news for South Korea, I cannot wait to see the Boramae fly in July.
 
One question that I have concerning the Boramae, is that will all kF-21s that will first enter service first with the conformal weapons hard points be upgraded with the internal weapons bay further down the line once full scale production starts?
 
FighterJock said:
One question that I have concerning the Boramae, is that will all kF-21s that will first enter service first with the conformal weapons hard points be upgraded with the internal weapons bay further down the line once full scale production starts?
Click to expand...
ive read here that yes it can
from this amature eyeball observation.
it seems the semi-recessed panels don't seem too hard to change. its simply covering the bays.
however one concern I have is the paneling itself.. there's not enough serrated edges, etc. I wonder if later versions will change their paneling
and if so, i doubt the early versions can be modified to have these new paneling

1646132142849.jpeg
 
helmutkohl said:
FighterJock said:
One question that I have concerning the Boramae, is that will all kF-21s that will first enter service first with the conformal weapons hard points be upgraded with the internal weapons bay further down the line once full scale production starts?
Click to expand...
ive read here that yes it can
from this amature eyeball observation.
it seems the semi-recessed panels don't seem too hard to change. its simply covering the bays.
however one concern I have is the paneling itself.. there's not enough serrated edges, etc. I wonder if later versions will change their paneling
and if so, i doubt the early versions can be modified to have these new paneling

View attachment 674944
Click to expand...

Thanks helmutkohl. So what will happen to the early versions once the later models enter service? I hope that they are sold.
 
FighterJock said:
Thanks helmutkohl. So what will happen to the early versions once the later models enter service? I hope that they are sold.
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They may be sold. But even the early blocks are more capable than their F-16 fleet, even the 134 upgraded machines. I don't foresee the early-block KF-21s being sold off before their F-16s.
 
Umigami said:
Do externaly mounting 2 short AAM like Iris T increase its RCS that significantly?
Click to expand...
Adding to Stealthflanker - it's worth noting, that for Ukraine=like low-altitude penetration missions, weapons will be hidden by the airframe.
Main suspension(under the fuselage) - completely, and SRAAMs - mostly(all the most reflective parts).

On the other hand, the downwards view doesn't favor aircraft stealth in the first place.
 
FighterJock said:
helmutkohl said:
UAE showing some interest in the KF-21 and T-50 (despite already ordering the Chinese L-15)

en.yna.co.kr

S. Korea, UAE discuss defense industry cooperation | Yonhap News Agency

SEOUL, March 18 (Yonhap) -- South Korea's Defense Minister Suh Wook met his United Ar...
en.yna.co.kr en.yna.co.kr
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What are the chances that the UAE will become the first export customer for the KF-21? I hope that they do.
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i guess it may ultimately depend on whether the F-35 is approved for UAE. I can see the likelihood being higher if the 35 isnt allowed.
 
helmutkohl said:
FighterJock said:
helmutkohl said:
UAE showing some interest in the KF-21 and T-50 (despite already ordering the Chinese L-15)

en.yna.co.kr

S. Korea, UAE discuss defense industry cooperation | Yonhap News Agency

SEOUL, March 18 (Yonhap) -- South Korea's Defense Minister Suh Wook met his United Ar...
en.yna.co.kr en.yna.co.kr
Click to expand...

What are the chances that the UAE will become the first export customer for the KF-21? I hope that they do.
Click to expand...
i guess it may ultimately depend on whether the F-35 is approved for UAE. I can see the likelihood being higher if the 35 isnt allowed.
Click to expand...

That would be a rather impressive victory for South Korea. Not everyday a country manages to outsell Uncle Sam and its F-35. Even more with a full-blown stealth airframe (miniature F-22, if you prefer).

Then imagine if that snowballs out of control. "F-22 production is gone, F-35 is either forbidden or single-engine or too expensive... hey, that South Korean aircraft seems a rather interesting alternative, when you think about it."

Said otherwise: whatif F-22 = F-15 & F-14; F-35 = F-16... and Boramae becomes the Hornet: the in-between, twin-engine, cheaper alternative ?

Spain, Canada, Australia... remember those countries who picked Hornets for that very reason ? led to the MiG-29, and later to the Rafale and Typhoon.

Whatever the limits of the KF-21 (F414 notably: american older engines) this place de facto South Korea in a rather interesting position.

Lockheed may have kittens over this...
 
Also working in the KF-21's favor is the current unpleasantness going on in Ukraine and the likely effect that'll have on the viability of Russian aircraft on the global fighter market. The Russians were already having trouble selling planes as the state of the art advanced and their political position deteriorated; that problem is only likely to get worse and the KF-21 would be in a good position to pick up some of the demand.

Not to mention stimulating demand in Europe for a finite supply of Western aircraft...
 
CV12Hornet said:
Also working in the KF-21's favor is the current unpleasantness going on in Ukraine and the likely effect that'll have on the viability of Russian aircraft on the global fighter market. The Russians were already having trouble selling planes as the state of the art advanced and their political position deteriorated; that problem is only likely to get worse and the KF-21 would be in a good position to pick up some of the demand.

Not to mention stimulating demand in Europe for a finite supply of Western aircraft...
Click to expand...

I can see that the KF-21 is going to have a long career ahead of it in terms of the export markets.
 
Archibald said:
Whatever the limits of the KF-21 (F414 notably: american older engines) this place de facto South Korea in a rather interesting position.
Click to expand...

Whoever buys it will have to be cleared to buy the F414s. That means they will need U.S. approval. The KF-21 is going to be, ideally, for those who can't afford the F-35 and it's more advanced systems. Also, many countries don't need those systems. As such, I think the KF-21 will be perfect for the export market countries that want an F-16/F-18 class aircraft with better LO, but not so much LO it breaks the bank.
 
Was thinking about Rafale. Not being "full L.O" yet one big present alternative to the F-35, it may suffers in some years...
 

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