• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

JMR (Joint Multi-Role) & FVL (Future Vertical Lift) Programs

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,973
Reaction score
72
Looks great except for the big pipe hanging out the bottom. B)
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,973
Reaction score
72
V-280 Valor: Popular Science "Best of What's New in 2018

Not surprising since it is the only one flying...

https://www.popsci.com/best-of-whats-new-2018#page-7
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,973
Reaction score
72
https://breakingdefense.com/2018/12/future-vertical-lift-sb1-defiant-flight-delayed-until-early-2019/?_ga=2.82103442.526392428.1544638029-210560558.1543245683

Unfortunately the Sikorsky Boeing SB>1 demonstrator has missed its first flight target again.
 

bring_it_on

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
1,910
Reaction score
7
Lockheed Martin’s Pilotage Distributed Aperture Sensor system set for V-280 flight testing


Lockheed Martin is moving forward with Pilotage Distributed Aperture Sensor (PDAS) system development, and next year it plans to flight test the system on Bell’s V-280 Valor tiltrotor aircraft and integrate additional capabilities into the situational awareness technology.

PDAS consists of six integrated infrared (IR) imaging sensors, an open-architecture processor (OAP), and one or more helmet-mounted displays to provide pilots with enhanced situational awareness and threat warning capabilities. In 2018, the company conducted PDAS installation checkouts and integration tests on the V-280. Looking into next year, the company said it anticipates system flight tests at a Bell facility to “capture” 360° imagery from the suite of integrated sensors.

Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options at ihsmarkit.com/janes
 

jsport

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
1,289
Reaction score
29
bring_it_on said:
Lockheed Martin’s Pilotage Distributed Aperture Sensor system set for V-280 flight testing


Lockheed Martin is moving forward with Pilotage Distributed Aperture Sensor (PDAS) system development, and next year it plans to flight test the system on Bell’s V-280 Valor tiltrotor aircraft and integrate additional capabilities into the situational awareness technology.

PDAS consists of six integrated infrared (IR) imaging sensors, an open-architecture processor (OAP), and one or more helmet-mounted displays to provide pilots with enhanced situational awareness and threat warning capabilities. In 2018, the company conducted PDAS installation checkouts and integration tests on the V-280. Looking into next year, the company said it anticipates system flight tests at a Bell facility to “capture” 360° imagery from the suite of integrated sensors.

Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options at ihsmarkit.com/janes
A simpleton's comment would be..why can't all in service aircraft be fitted w/ PDAS and associated DIRCM (if genuinely functioning as originally advertised) etc. to greatly enhance their survival? and we start assessing what 35 sensor/Sitawarn technology can be retrofitted into existing legacy craft.
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,973
Reaction score
72
jsport said:
bring_it_on said:
Lockheed Martin’s Pilotage Distributed Aperture Sensor system set for V-280 flight testing


Lockheed Martin is moving forward with Pilotage Distributed Aperture Sensor (PDAS) system development, and next year it plans to flight test the system on Bell’s V-280 Valor tiltrotor aircraft and integrate additional capabilities into the situational awareness technology.

PDAS consists of six integrated infrared (IR) imaging sensors, an open-architecture processor (OAP), and one or more helmet-mounted displays to provide pilots with enhanced situational awareness and threat warning capabilities. In 2018, the company conducted PDAS installation checkouts and integration tests on the V-280. Looking into next year, the company said it anticipates system flight tests at a Bell facility to “capture” 360° imagery from the suite of integrated sensors.

Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options at ihsmarkit.com/janes
A simpleton's comment would be..why can't all in service aircraft be fitted w/ PDAS and associated DIRCM (if genuinely functioning as originally advertised) etc. to greatly enhance their survival? and we start assessing what 35 sensor/Sitawarn technology can be retrofitted into existing legacy craft.
A simple answer would be "there is no monetary reason they cannot". There are of course other reasons such as integration and real estate that could make integration into some existing aircraft problematic. You also have the problem that defense contractors are not excited to share core software code with their competitors. Unless of course the government is willing to buy the code. They usually do not.
 

jsport

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
1,289
Reaction score
29
yasotay said:
jsport said:
bring_it_on said:
Lockheed Martin’s Pilotage Distributed Aperture Sensor system set for V-280 flight testing


Lockheed Martin is moving forward with Pilotage Distributed Aperture Sensor (PDAS) system development, and next year it plans to flight test the system on Bell’s V-280 Valor tiltrotor aircraft and integrate additional capabilities into the situational awareness technology.

PDAS consists of six integrated infrared (IR) imaging sensors, an open-architecture processor (OAP), and one or more helmet-mounted displays to provide pilots with enhanced situational awareness and threat warning capabilities. In 2018, the company conducted PDAS installation checkouts and integration tests on the V-280. Looking into next year, the company said it anticipates system flight tests at a Bell facility to “capture” 360° imagery from the suite of integrated sensors.

Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options at ihsmarkit.com/janes
A simpleton's comment would be..why can't all in service aircraft be fitted w/ PDAS and associated DIRCM (if genuinely functioning as originally advertised) etc. to greatly enhance their survival? and we start assessing what 35 sensor/Sitawarn technology can be retrofitted into existing legacy craft.
A simple answer would be "there is no monetary reason they cannot". There are of course other reasons such as integration and real estate that could make integration into some existing aircraft problematic. You also have the problem that defense contractors are not excited to share core software code with their competitors. Unless of course the government is willing to buy the code. They usually do not.
Agree on all points. The claim is "open-architecture processor (OAP)"

How much of that developed code and every piece of developed hardware is already owned by the USG, w/o OTAs likely all of it is USG owned, vice the development contract rules of the FAR.
 

Airplane

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
432
Reaction score
0
How tall is that whirly bird, anyway? Will it ever work on a carrier or roll on and off a c5?
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,973
Reaction score
72
Airplane said:
How tall is that whirly bird, anyway? Will it ever work on a carrier or roll on and off a c5?
It will not in its current configuration.
 

marauder2048

"I should really just relax"
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
2,325
Reaction score
69
yasotay said:
You also have the problem that defense contractors are not excited to share core software code with their competitors.
Unless of course the government is willing to buy the code. They usually do not.
Where did JMR-TD end up on the data rights side?
 

sferrin

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
11,944
Reaction score
285
Could either design fit in a C-5 / C-17? ???
 

TomS

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,208
Reaction score
125
sferrin said:
Could either design fit in a C-5 / C-17? ???
The idea is that they are fast enough and have enough range to self-deploy.
 

TomcatViP

Hellcat
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
858
Reaction score
42
Transpacific?
Until we've got the dim I guess we can assess that Boeing certainly helped to get them with a plan B:

https://youtu.be/awXAuSkObps
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,973
Reaction score
72
marauder2048 said:
yasotay said:
You also have the problem that defense contractors are not excited to share core software code with their competitors.
Unless of course the government is willing to buy the code. They usually do not.
Where did JMR-TD end up on the data rights side?
I think there is some data sharing but given that the industry teams put something like 5 times the amount funds into the effort, I suspect the there is not complete data rights.
 

sferrin

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
11,944
Reaction score
285
TomcatViP said:
Transpacific?
Until we've got the dim I guess we can assess that Boeing certainly helped to get them with a plan B:

https://youtu.be/awXAuSkObps
Would be quite a trip if the CH-47 and CH-53 could be airlifted but neither JMR candidate could be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMEYxXf50A

Granted, you can't just drive it onboard, but it's doable.
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,973
Reaction score
72
Well you can cram just about anything (rotorcraft wise) into a C-17 if you disassemble it enough.
 

TomS

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,208
Reaction score
125
I assume the rotor mast will come out. After that, it should be an easy fit. Just hope the rotors and other bits can fit on a stand in the same aircraft.
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,973
Reaction score
72
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4w_17lZI0c

In case you were the one person on the planet not aware that the V-280 has been flying for a year.
 

fredymac

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
1,448
Reaction score
66
In depth status update of V-280. At ~ 10:30 mark, discussion touches on the subject of Army acceptance of tilt rotors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM4EGT_a0Xc
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,973
Reaction score
72
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhxJtaqq0xQ

Defiant - finally turnin' an burnin'
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,973
Reaction score
72
I'll settle for Defiant just putting air under the tires.
 

jsport

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
1,289
Reaction score
29
fredymac said:
In depth status update of V-280. At ~ 10:30 mark, discussion touches on the subject of Army acceptance of tilt rotors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM4EGT_a0Xc
Alleged "equal agility" is that include rate of bank that Bell says it is working on? If a tiltrotor can not compete w/ conventional rotors on 'rate of bank' then it would appear they are AAA bait and should not never be exposed to that type of fire threat. If that is the case then tilts are only good for long ranged deployment and not direct action under AAA fire. Missiles can be countered w/ measures but AAA can not.
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,973
Reaction score
72
jsport said:
fredymac said:
In depth status update of V-280. At ~ 10:30 mark, discussion touches on the subject of Army acceptance of tilt rotors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM4EGT_a0Xc
Alleged "equal agility" is that include rate of bank that Bell says it is working on? If a tiltrotor can not compete w/ conventional rotors on 'rate of bank' then it would appear they are AAA bait and should not never be exposed to that type of fire threat. If that is the case then tilts are only good for long ranged deployment and not direct action under AAA fire. Missiles can be countered w/ measures but AAA can not.
Lots of options. If the tilt-rotor is in wing-borne flight I suspect the rate of bank is satisfactory and it won't bleed energy as much as a conventional helo making hard role and turn. In rotor-borne flight I would think it would depend on the weight of the aircraft at the time. A Blackhawk with a load of troops is not the most nimble of aircraft, fast or slow. There is a lot to do with getting hit as well. The two CV-22 that got shot up in Sudan flew ~400NM to Entebbe before shutting down. Not bad for a deathtrap. But at the end of the day you are correct, if the TR cannot meet the specifications spelled out by the services then that would be a down check.
 

TomcatViP

Hellcat
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
858
Reaction score
42
“We’re continuing to do our part of the work through the end of this year, for sure,” said Bell Chief Executive Mitch Snyder. “Then we’re waiting to see what happens with the budget. When the budget comes out here in the middle of March, we’ll see where the Future Vertical Lift money lays, but at this point, we’re finishing up the funded program that we are in and we’re ready to move into the next phase.”
Snyder on March 1 spoke to a few aviation reporters on a conference call. He was responding to remarks made in January by Textron Chief Executive Scott Donnelly that internal investment in V-280 would be cut without significantly more investment by the Army in its Future Vertical Lift program.
“We have no insight into what the [PB-20] looks like at this stage of the game,” Donnelly said during the January earnings call. “At this point, look, we'll have no choice but to roll back any funding that we put into it, waiting to see what the army is going to do, because we've done what we can do.”
Snyder said the advanced tiltrotor is closing in on 100 flight hours in the 14 months it has been airborne. That achievement in flight test put the company way ahead of the Defiant, which has not yet flown. “Tremendous work has been done to expand the Valor’s flight envelope and its ability to perform 'extreme' pitch, yaw and roll maneuvers, Snyder said.
Still, he emphasized that JMR-TD was at least partially funded and there is no definite cash flow yet attached to FVL Capability Set 3, or Future Long Range Assault aircraft, for which the Valor would be suited.
“The first part of this program, the Joint Multirole Technology Demonstrator program, or JMR-TD, was funded by Bell and our industry partners as well as the U.S. government,” Snyder said. “What we’re saying there is the JMR-TD effort is coming to a close at the end of 2019. As part of that program, we were to build and demonstrate an aircraft, demonstrate the key performance parameters of that aircraft, which we are doing right now and, finally, document and make the reports on what we achieved in preparation and to inform the actual Future Vertical Lift program.”
“What’s coming now is we’re waiting to see the budget, but the next step is the Future Vertical Lift program,” he added. “What I can tell you is that interfacing with government officials and the United States Army is they are very excited and working very hard to get the budget in place to continue this effort right into Future Vertical Lift seamlessly.”
Source:
Rotor & Wing.com
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,973
Reaction score
72
Army just went through an internal budget drill and moved $30B into there "Big Six". I have no doubt that both air vehicle JMR teams have full plans in their pocket if the money shows up.
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,973
Reaction score
72

TomcatViP

Hellcat
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
858
Reaction score
42
An inspiration for a new logo at the Airbus vertical flight military division's:



Regarding the MDH offer, two ITEP would make for 6000hp on a small to medium design! I guess they want to use fan stream as a propulsive means.

From VerticalMag

Swift will be a fully composite aircraft, with a wing and more powerful engines, she said. The NOTAR anti-torque system would have more fans and provide more thrust than that of the MD 902/969, she added, but would be narrower. ;)
[...]
In terms of its performance, MDHI said the 969 will have a 6,770-pound maximum gross takeoff weight, with a useful load of 3,395 pounds, and a range of 422 miles. With FARA performance improvements, the company said the 969 would be capable of a cruise speed of 160 knots and a maximum speed of 180 knots.
“This will be a lethal machine,” said Tilton. “It’s just going to carry enough weaponry that it makes it as lethal as a Black Hawk — and that’s because it’s designed with so much stability, a great center of gravity, and the empty gross weight. . . I think it is just the missing link of what we already have in the light attack space.”
Tilton added that the company’s focus this year would be on bringing the 969 to the marketplace, with the development of Swift behind it.
“It’s very hard to take an aircraft that’s been built for 140 knots and turn it into a 200-knot aircraft,” she said. “It’s the research and development on this system [the 969] that is taking us to that system [Swift]. But we put the money away, we’ve got a plan and hopefully next year we’ll have [Swift] here [at Heli-Expo].”
Let's also hope that they won't fall in the other trap where the H160 team happily stepped in of an entirely built composite airframe based on an old architecture that pushes the CG way upward, conflicting with stability during near ground operation.

Notice:
Obviously emphasis and smiley are my editorial touch. :)
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,973
Reaction score
72
I think a 902 with a gull wing, wheels and wheel spats would look marvelously retro. ...Perhaps a few less beers before the next post. :eek:
 

Sundog

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
2,600
Reaction score
27
jsport said:
Those outboard props nake it non starter for military in -extremis ops.
I don't see why those would be any worse than the tail pusher in the Sikorsky designs, as I'm sure they would be disengaged on the ground.
 

Rhinocrates

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
180
Reaction score
11
TomcatViP said:
An inspiration for a new logo at the Airbus vertical flight military division's:
Well they do say, if you can keep your head when everyone around you is losing theirs, then perhaps you should land your helicopter somewhere less crowded.
 

_Del_

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
366
Reaction score
3
Sundog said:
jsport said:
Those outboard props nake it non starter for military in -extremis ops.
I don't see why those would be any worse than the tail pusher in the Sikorsky designs, as I'm sure they would be disengaged on the ground.
Their configuration needs at least one prop turning for anti-torque. Even if you shut it down on the ground, it would require time to spin down. And it would require time to get both rotors and propulsors back up to speed.

Sikorski's fan is on a clutch, and they can disengage it in flight in descent. Just as importantly, it also isn't sitting right outside the cabin.
 

TomS

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,208
Reaction score
125
If they make the props into pushers behind the wings instead, that would improve side access to the cabin and simplify launching weapons from the wings as well
 

AeroFranz

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,161
Reaction score
20
that might indeed be preferable...
For civilian operators, I can see how they went with tractors. Pushers would be noisier (ingesting wake of strut) and maybe it would have less ground clearance if you're flaring on landing. Depends on the actual geometry and i'd have to look at it, TBH.
 
Top