• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Identification required

gerhard

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
76
Reaction score
1
Hi Guys

I have come across an awesome web page on some unknown Japanese x-planes. Is there someone that can translate and identify it for us?

Check it out:
http://www.geocities.jp/ramopcommand/_geo_contents_/070504/kakuusono3.html

Cheers
 

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
23
Welcome Gerhard
and thanks for the heads up.

I quite fancy doing a new set of Japanese secret project aircraft, so I'm also interested in any info.

Cheers
Peter
 

Pelzig

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
446
Reaction score
21
I'm thinking these may be fantasy types, perhaps from Sora magazine?

These are web translations [I did some editing and put in my thoughts in red]:

The first is the TC-1 type "White Eagle" high-speed bomber:

・Engine: [Ekihiya] two, 1500 horsepower engines
・Size: Width (span) 17.8m; Length 16.6m
・Max Speed: 720 km/h
・Arms: 20mm cannon ×1 and 13mm heavy machine gun ×3
・Propeller: Four bladed "electric" propeller (Pella [propellor?] direction opposite) [not sure what this means...perhaps the blades rotate counter to each other, like the first prototype of the Nakajima J1N Gekko]
・Feature:
[Shi] . ..the improvement of the main wing performance.. ..the peel... use the promotion type
It is an equivalent extent sacrificing the cruising range, and it strains itself in the high speed.
It equips it with the radiator of the engine in the wing.

Next is:

11 "Sorakaze" high-speed type medium bomber

・Engine: Two, 2000 horsepower engines
・Max Speed: 720 km/h in all equipment [I'm assuming loaded].
・Cruising speed: 580 km/h
・Cruising range: 2500km
・Feature:
All metal construction, land-based aircraft
This machine of each part where the propeller used for the head and the bombing ground attack uses four contra types is extremely excellent in view. [not too sure what this part is getting at...contra-rotating props for each engine? Given all the glazing, the excellent view makes sense.]

"Two [perhaps meaning twin-boom or twin engine?] High-speed high-speed type medium bomber"

・Engine: Star type [not sure if this is referring to the name of the engine or a reference to a radial engine which are known as "star" engines due to their layout ] of four air-cooled, 2000 horsepower engines ×2 [the booms look too thin in the front to house dual radial engines, so, perhaps "Star" is referring to a name of the engine which, more likely, are twin inline engines.]
・Crew: 4
Ceiling: 14500 meters
・Arms: 20mm cannon each in the tail, fired by a remote-control. [likely the nose cannon is manual]
・Bomb Load: 1,200kg (600kg per bombbay in the booms)
・Grove chief of a ward:
Because of the crew arrangement towards the center of gravity, G forces are lessened in dives and turns. All the fuel tanks are in the body, and the main wings are extremely thin.
As for the agglutination device, arrival and departure from [**haha] is also possible of [ni] wheel type [naruwo]. [not sure on this as the translator has some issues]

(* [**haha]: Aircraft carrier)

"Flying Fish"-type medium bomber" (!!)

・Engine: Two air-cooled, 36 cylinder, "star" 2400 horsepower engines. [At this point, I'm convinced that "star" is referring to a radial engine]
・Crew: Four
・Maximum Speed: 645 km/h
・Bomb Load: 1000kg
・Feature: All the gun emplacements are operated via remote-control and aiming is via a "television" [!] type sight and has the machine gun 25mm four gates. [apparently, the four 25mm cannons are remote controlled]
Eight 12mm machine guns are possessed the front of nasser [nacelle?] and all bodies moreover.
The propeller is assumed to be a contra type.
[I don't think the inlets are for jet propulsion or even turbojets...just air inlets]

"TK23 type medium bomber"

Max Speed: 660 km/h
Bomb Load: 1,000kg
Armament: One machine-gun, 20mm cannon, and 13mm machine-gun (fixed) with flexible 20mm cannon and two 7.7mm machine-guns.

The underside of the pilot [crew area?] station is an armor plated.
In firearms, as for fixation, the rear side is fighter-bombers assumed to be movable forward.
The captain is located in the field emplacement on the center, and it is here also the operating device. In lower right *, the operation situation of the back field emplacement and the tail field emplacement is shown. [if I read it right, there is a ventral gun station along with a tail gunner station with the pilot in the center of the aircraft]

Three crew

Another medium bomber (the translator had issues with the kanji)

It is a bomber version of the fictitious machine this time.
I feel the thought of such a design as for these though the bomber of Japan at that time does the speed as soon as possible, and was performed the design that attacks the enemy's territory.
Moreover, this also is a feature the machine gun installed backwards, and is used to assume the thing that it is run after from the back by the enemy plane and the bullet is poured, and to drive away the enemy plane. Especially, it appears or I think that I felt misgivings in the development of the airplane of U.S.-Britain.

Moreover, there is the one that looked like Europe and America at that time, especially the design of the airframe of the United States, too. At that time, even the state-of-the-art one is reported in the photograph, and the airplane of Europe and America seems to have been influenced in no small way.

[the author of this site seems to think this plane is fake (and I'm pretty certain the others are fictitious as well) and that it is a high-speed bomber that relies on speed to penetrate enemy defenses in order to make its bomb run. It only has a rear pointing machine-gun in the tail to fire on pursuers. It seems the author is saying that the design of the Japanese plane resembles U.S. and British aircraft and perhaps the plane may not be Japanese in origin?]
 

Pelzig

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
446
Reaction score
21
The TC-1 and the "Flying Fish" look like they were derived from the Rikugun Kogiken project planes (doubtful the artist, if these are wartime drawings, had access to those plans...but who knows) with the TC-1 looking similar in shape to the fictional S-31 "Kurowashi", or "Black Eagle." As the TC-1 is the "White Eagle", it may not be coincidence.
 

Skyraider3D

Aviation Artist
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
382
Reaction score
40
Website
www.aviationart.aero
Fun stuff! ;D

Pelzig said:
It equips it with the radiator of the engine in the wing [sounds like a surface evaporation system as used in the Kawasaki Ki-64].
Nah, it just means radiators in the wing. Note the air intake on the illustration. Pretty much alike the layout of the British Mosquito bomber, except the engine is a pusher.
 

Pelzig

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
446
Reaction score
21
Ah! That makes sense. ;D

Skyraider3D said:
Fun stuff! ;D

Pelzig said:
It equips it with the radiator of the engine in the wing [sounds like a surface evaporation system as used in the Kawasaki Ki-64].
Nah, it just means radiators in the wing. Note the air intake on the illustration. Pretty much alike the layout of the British Mosquito bomber, except the engine is a pusher.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,398
Reaction score
2,580
Hi Pelzig! I surprise your Japanese ability very much.
Your translation is very accurate.
Yes 架空(kakuu) means fictional.
But 液冷 is not ekihiya, it's ekirei.
液 means liquid and 冷 means cooling.
 

gerhard

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
76
Reaction score
1
I guess not being able to read Japanese makes it so much more difficult when coming across rare finds like this. They all look like viable options and some are very streamline designs. Flitzer I think a new topic on Japanese secret project aircraft would be very welcome. Thank you, Pelzig for your translations and thoughts. :)
 

Flitzer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
23
Hi Gerhard

I'm currently well in to the next set of German secret projects and was wondering what to do once they are completed.
So yes I will do a new Japanese set.
I'll probably, no make that definitely, need a fair bit of help with details and camo schemes and markings.

Best regards
Peter
;D
 

Tophe

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,149
Reaction score
37
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
Pelzig said:
I'm thinking these may be fantasy types, perhaps from Sora magazine?
"Two [perhaps meaning twin-boom or twin engine?] High-speed high-speed type medium bomber"
・Engine: Star type [not sure if this is referring to the name of the engine or a reference to a radial engine which are known as "star" engines due to their layout ] of four air-cooled, 2000 horsepower engines ×2 [the booms look too thin in the front to house dual radial engines, so, perhaps "Star" is referring to a name of the engine which, more likely, are twin inline engines.]
・Crew: 4
Ceiling: 14500 meters
・Arms: 20mm cannon each in the tail, fired by a remote-control. [likely the nose cannon is manual]
・Bomb Load: 1,200kg (600kg per bombbay in the booms)
・Grove chief of a ward:
Because of the crew arrangement towards the center of gravity, G forces are lessened in dives and turns. All the fuel tanks are in the body, and the main wings are extremely thin.
As for the agglutination device, arrival and departure from [**haha] is also possible of [ni] wheel type [naruwo]. [not sure on this as the translator has some issues]
Thanks a lot for this translation about this unknown (fantasy?) twin-boomer...
Babel Fish translator finds also the words Magnetic and Soviet for this one.
What date is it according to you? 1941-45? (with the speeds of the other models)
Will this topic move to "Scale Modelling, CGI and Profiles" if this is all fake?
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,742
Reaction score
3,503
Hi,

I repeat sending them,because maybe this site will be broken or something like that.
 

Attachments

  • img093.jpg
    img093.jpg
    32.4 KB · Views: 137
  • img094.jpg
    img094.jpg
    44.9 KB · Views: 137
  • img133.jpg
    img133.jpg
    74.3 KB · Views: 135
  • img134.jpg
    img134.jpg
    69.9 KB · Views: 135
  • img138.jpg
    img138.jpg
    83.1 KB · Views: 135
  • img142.jpg
    img142.jpg
    83 KB · Views: 25

bigvlada

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
369
Reaction score
20
First sentence in the bottom paragraph says it's bomber version of the fictional machine.
 

Similar threads

Top