ID Request

[Bill S]

I found both of these in the VAHF archives.
There are no markings on the photos, nor supporting documentation.

Any ideas on the who or what would be appreciated.

 

[Stargazer]

Any ideas on the who or what would be appreciated.

I wonder if the book Les Avions Vought by Bernard Millot didn't include an item on these in a brief "other works" section. Unfortunately I don't have access to that book at the moment.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

First one looks like a chaff dispenser system for small boats.

 

[TomS]

I'm fairly sure the second is an iteration of the Special Warfare Craft, Medium (SWCM), aka Sea Viking. SWCM was a surface effect ship for SEAL insertion/extraction and various other missions. The center aft section was meant to be modular and could hold an SDV, raiding craft, Harpoon missiles, or some other fits. There was also some light permanent armament, originally Gatling guns but in this drawing a pair of LTV Crossbow Weapon stations. That would explain this picture's presence in the Vought archives.

SWCM was a complete failure, BTW. The lead boat was very overweight and was never finished, and the program died with nothing useful delivered. I came across only one pages that talks about it at any length and it's light on details.

http://www.warboats.org/sbs1seabrick.htm

 

[TomS]

First one looks like a chaff dispenser system for small boats.

The weapon station forward also looks to be the LTV Crossbow.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

LTV Crossbow, land based.

Basically a MANPADS turret. Was also tested with RBS 70 and others after losing to Avenger.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=983

By the end of the 1970s everyone in the MANPADS (ie manportable surface to air missile system) business realized that a shoulder fired missile was "Good"; that a tripod fired missile was "Better"; and missile mounted on a vehicle with a lot more sensors and other items was "BEST". The last item being called a Pedestal-Mounted MANPADS.

In the early 1980s Boeing Aerospace started a private project on a pedestal-mounted Stinger system on a 4X4 vehicle the famous HMVEE. They were think of possible exports to nations that had less of a air threat who did not want to spend a fortune on self-propelled anti-air missile systems like the Avenger.

By the mid 1980s the US Army realized they were going no where with either project to replace the outdated Chaparral system (ie a ground launched version of the famous Sidewinder air to air missile) the Roland or the ADATS. The air threat to the US Army or US Marines was very minimal. So they searched for a cheap solution an issued requests from US defense firms for ideas to mobilize the shoulder fired Stinger and give it a limited night firing ability. The results was the Pedestal Mounted Stinger (PMS). Three firms competed but only Boeing and LTV were actually serious PMS candidates and the vehicles were tested in early 1987 and Boeing with its Avenger system was awarded the contract. The second runner up was the LTV Crossbow system shown in these photos from its brochure.

The US Army preferred the Avenger over the Crossbow because the gunner was seated in the turret and had better situation awareness to acquire targets. Also the US Army claimed that the Avenger was far superior in acquire and engage air threats while the vehicle was traveling -- eg in convoy. Unlike the Avenger where the gunner sat in the turret the LTV Crossbow the gunner sat nexts to the driver and by slewing the turret acquired them by using TV or FLIR.

LTV was upset over the decision because they claimed their system had better bad visibility and night ability. Also they claimed that the Boeing Avenger could not be easily transported by the C-130 as required. But the US Army stuck by its decision and bought the Boeing Avenger and it seems to have been a success with the US Army and is even used for convoy protection duties in Iraq using its FLIR to spot ambushes.

 

[TomS]

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1989/1989%20-%203848.html?search=Crossbow

During a three-week period, Crossbow, developed for air defence
missions, launched Hellfire missiles and 70mm rockets, and
tested the M242 25mm automatic cannon.

I believe that the test platform was the SES-200 surface effect ship, which was operated by the David Taylor Research Center's SES Support Office in Patuxent River at the time.

I think the unnamed fourth system was RBS-70.
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1990/1990%20-%200294.html?search=Crossbow