I am working on a science fiction story and need some help with designing and drawing

TheRejectionist

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I am amateur writer, I am currently on my 26th page of what I am writing. I have so far come up with help of friends in the military :

1. Tank with two variants (tracks and wheels)
2. Support vehicle of said tank

Now I am lacking other important components of army : helicopters and planes. Specifically :

1. Multipurpose combat airplanes/jets
2. Transport planes
3. Helicopters (multipurpose and transport)

The setting of this story is the Amazon rainforest : one side is a NATO equivalent against a coalition of Central and South American nations plus Angola, Cabo Verde, East Timor, Mozambique and Guinea Bissau supported by Russia and Israel.

I am currently doing the second (the Russo-Israeli supported side) before I do the NATO equivalent.

Could someone potentially discuss here with me and help me ? I have no previous knowledge or else about planes and jets. I am a simple civvie who likes to write science fiction that at least on paper sounds plausible.
 

antigravite

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I am amateur writer, I am currently on my 26th page of what I am writing. I have so far come up with help of friends in the military :

1. Tank with two variants (tracks and wheels)
2. Support vehicle of said tank

Now I am lacking other important components of army : helicopters and planes. Specifically :

1. Multipurpose combat airplanes/jets
2. Transport planes
3. Helicopters (multipurpose and transport)

The setting of this story is the Amazon rainforest : one side is a NATO equivalent against a coalition of Central and South American nations plus Angola, Cabo Verde, East Timor, Mozambique and Guinea Bissau supported by Russia and Israel.

I am currently doing the second (the Russo-Israeli supported side) before I do the NATO equivalent.

Could someone potentially discuss here with me and help me ? I have no previous knowledge or else about planes and jets. I am a simple civvie who likes to write science fiction that at least on paper sounds plausible.
Hi. How far did you go doing your homework?
A.
 

TheRejectionist

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I am amateur writer, I am currently on my 26th page of what I am writing. I have so far come up with help of friends in the military :

1. Tank with two variants (tracks and wheels)
2. Support vehicle of said tank

Now I am lacking other important components of army : helicopters and planes. Specifically :

1. Multipurpose combat airplanes/jets
2. Transport planes
3. Helicopters (multipurpose and transport)

The setting of this story is the Amazon rainforest : one side is a NATO equivalent against a coalition of Central and South American nations plus Angola, Cabo Verde, East Timor, Mozambique and Guinea Bissau supported by Russia and Israel.

I am currently doing the second (the Russo-Israeli supported side) before I do the NATO equivalent.

Could someone potentially discuss here with me and help me ? I have no previous knowledge or else about planes and jets. I am a simple civvie who likes to write science fiction that at least on paper sounds plausible.
Hi. How far did you go doing your homework?
A.
@antigravite so far only the tanks and support vehicles. I only have two books from 1989 that I can afford. I am simple civvie, from Italy/Brazil with no degree in anything of engineering, avionics and so forth.

I am very IGNORANT on anything related to the military or aviation. Literally zero beyond "this looks NATO/and allies" and "this looks Russian/Chinese" and the "looks shiny or cool" type of things.

Starting from scratch in other worlds.
 

Orionblamblam

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The setting of this story is the Amazon rainforest : one side is a NATO equivalent against a coalition of Central and South American nations plus Angola, Cabo Verde, East Timor, Mozambique and Guinea Bissau supported by Russia and Israel.

I gotta say, that sounds... schizophrenic. Israel teamed up with Russia? East Timor and Mozambique in cahoots in South America? Souths like nations were pulled out of a hat.
 

CV12Hornet

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Well, first and most important question: when is this taking place?

Second, we're fighting over the Amazon. Critical information, but how, precisely, are they fighting over the Amazon? How are their opponents getting access, and how does this coalition intend to deny access? In particular, what does their ground doctrine look like?
 

Michel Van

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The setting of this story is the Amazon rainforest : one side is a NATO equivalent against a coalition of Central and South American nations plus Angola, Cabo Verde, East Timor, Mozambique and Guinea Bissau supported by Russia and Israel.

Sounds like Brazil reinstalled the Portuguese Empire with Angola, Mozambique, Cape Verde, Timor and Guinea Bissau
what support they get from Russia and Israel ? (why Israel ?) What does China ? (they expand in south American now)
Brasil has own weapon production like Aircraft and Guns (check Wiki)

They Fighting in or over Amazon Rainforest ?
Is this classic eco-trope Western Civilisation protect last remaining piece of Rainforest against locals ?

Fighting in or over the Rainforest is very important for hardware you need
A Leopard 2 battle tank is useless inside the Rainforest, a mini tank like Wiesel works better with Air transport
And here you need river combat boats like Vietnam War (FORGET Hovercraft and Hydrofoil THEY NOT WORK THERE)
 

zen

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The Amazon Basin is HUGE.
Air patrols over this would rely on AEWACS and Tankers.

GBADS could score a lot of nasty surprises like Vietnam did. But the environment will take it's toll on equipment.

A lot of Man and Donkey portable equipment for overland through the Forest(s). River based transport is going to figure a lot. So combat would locate on river junctions and overland routs between key rivers.

Would be very nasty to fight in this.
 

martinbayer

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What's the supposed point of departure, motivation, objective, and endgame in this muddled scenario?
 
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Opportunistic Minnow

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Presumably this is post-Cold War otherwise the Monroe Doctrine would rain-off play. I guess it would have to feature a rather non-interventionist USA full stop just to get a "Russo-Israeli" or "a coalition of Central and South American nations"? So I'm uncertain how equivalent your NATO equivalent is. A lot of questions need answering.
 

Dilandu

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The setting of this story is the Amazon rainforest
Well, Russia have exactly what you need:

1644147871325.png

Project 21630 small artillery ship (Byuan-class corvette in NATO classification). 500 tons full displacement, 2 meters draft, suitable for river and coastal areas. Armament - one 100-mm gun, two AK-603 CIWS, two "Gibka" remote-control station for Igla-M MANPAD, two 14,5-mm machineguns, one 122-mm 40-tube reloadable Grad-M MRLS (80 reloads).
 
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TheRejectionist

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The setting of this story is the Amazon rainforest : one side is a NATO equivalent against a coalition of Central and South American nations plus Angola, Cabo Verde, East Timor, Mozambique and Guinea Bissau supported by Russia and Israel.

I gotta say, that sounds... schizophrenic. Israel teamed up with Russia? East Timor and Mozambique in cahoots in South America? Souths like nations were pulled out of a hat.
I know it sounds schizophrenic. For the alliance part (more of a federations of equals for Lusophone countries) see the response @Dilandu gave.
I gotta say, that sounds... schizophrenic. Israel teamed up with Russia?
Actually quite easy. Both Russia and Israel are pragmatic above all. If there are some common interest - we played along quite well.
One thing I didn't understand...you are Israeli or Russian? I visited Tel Aviv once. Liked it a lot.
The setting of this story is the Amazon rainforest : one side is a NATO equivalent against a coalition of Central and South American nations plus Angola, Cabo Verde, East Timor, Mozambique and Guinea Bissau supported by Russia and Israel.

Sounds like Brazil reinstalled the Portuguese Empire with Angola, Mozambique, Cape Verde, Timor and Guinea Bissau
what support they get from Russia and Israel ? (why Israel ?) What does China ? (they expand in south American now)
Brasil has own weapon production like Aircraft and Guns (check Wiki)
Kinda is. China IRL hasn't expanded that much yet in LATAM except for Bolivia. In my story there will be a Chinese American War. A bit like Fallout, but also nowadays I think it can have a base in reality.
They Fighting in or over Amazon Rainforest ?
Is this classic eco-trope Western Civilisation protect last remaining piece of Rainforest against locals ?
IN the AMAZON. But first it will be urban combat.
I am frankly surprised that tropes exists. Usually it's like Avatar if memory serves me correctly. See my later explanation to @martinbayer if helps you better,
Fighting in or over the Rainforest is very important for hardware you need
A Leopard 2 battle tank is useless inside the Rainforest, a mini tank like Wiesel works better with Air transport
And here you need river combat boats like Vietnam War (FORGET Hovercraft and Hydrofoil THEY NOT WORK THERE)
@Michel Van in the story I am writing, it will be first urban combat (Coastal and population centers of Brazil) THEN it will be IN the AMAZON forest.
What's the supposed point of departure, motivation, objective, and endgame in this muddled scenario?
20 minutes into the future trope with a variation of inspiration based on the German-backed collaborationist government of Vichy France. Brazilian Amazonian states occupied by US military and private companies. America goes to nuclear war against China, MAD scenario for this countries.
The Amazonian occupation zone is the remnants of US companies and soldiers that were left behid.

Presumably this is post-Cold War otherwise the Monroe Doctrine would rain-off play. I guess it would have to feature a rather non-interventionist USA full stop just to get a "Russo-Israeli" or "a coalition of Central and South American nations"? So I'm uncertain how equivalent your NATO equivalent is. A lot of questions need answering.

It's kinda 20 minutes into the future. The US is the one doing the invading, who presumes THAT Brazil is somewhat Sinophile.

The Amazon Basin is HUGE.
Air patrols over this would rely on AEWACS and Tankers.

GBADS could score a lot of nasty surprises like Vietnam did. But the environment will take it's toll on equipment.

A lot of Man and Donkey portable equipment for overland through the Forest(s). River based transport is going to figure a lot. So combat would locate on river junctions and overland routs between key rivers.

Would be very nasty to fight in this.
Thanks for the info. Point 2,3,4 I hadn't even thought to consider them. I completely forgot a simple fact like that.
 

TheRejectionist

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The setting of this story is the Amazon rainforest
Well, Russia have exactly what you need:

View attachment 673662

Project 21630 small artillery ship (Byuan-class corvette in NATO classification). 500 tons full displacement, 2 meters draft, suitable for river and coastal areas. Armament - one 100-mm gun, two AK-603 CIWS, two "Gibka" remote-control station for Igla-M MANPAD, two 14,5-mm machineguns, one 122-mm 40-tube reloadable Grad-M MRLS (80 reloads).

You LIKELY saved me tons of time and research ! :D
 

Michel Van

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In my story there will be a Chinese American War.
theoretical could happen in 2040s and could be nuclear.
If USA not have Civil war under current political situation.
and provoke a financial world crisis in 2040 do lack paying there state debt or domestic dept
or Religious fanatics ruling the US
This here is only theoretical!
Brazilian Amazonian states occupied by US military and private companies. America goes to nuclear war against China, MAD scenario for this countries.
Biggest evil here are mercenary companies like Blackwater or Wagner group .
the keep the conflict ongoing to get money...

But first it will be urban combat.
you need to get that material to coast - Cargo ships and landing crafts plus supports and Aircraft carriers to assault and protection.
 

Orionblamblam

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20 minutes into the future trope with a variation of inspiration based on the German-backed collaborationist government of Vichy France. Brazilian Amazonian states occupied by US military and private companies. America goes to nuclear war against China, MAD scenario for this countries.
The Amazonian occupation zone is the remnants of US companies and soldiers that were left behid.
...
It's kinda 20 minutes into the future. The US is the one doing the invading, who presumes THAT Brazil is somewhat Sinophile.

If the US has been nuked out of existence, the vast majority of US forces scattered around the world will either go native or go home. The US won't be invading *anybody* if its major population and economic centers have been glassed.

Also, if it was a full exchange between the US and a more-nuclear China, the chances are good that the Amazon rain forest will be largely dead: a good nuclear winter will wipe it out.
 

TheRejectionist

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In my story there will be a Chinese American War.
theoretical could happen in 2040s and could be nuclear.
If USA not have Civil war under current political situation.
and provoke a financial world crisis in 2040 do lack paying there state debt or domestic dept
or Religious fanatics ruling the US
This here is only theoretical!
Brazilian Amazonian states occupied by US military and private companies. America goes to nuclear war against China, MAD scenario for this countries.
Biggest evil here are mercenary companies like Blackwater or Wagner group .
the keep the conflict ongoing to get money...
Didn't consider this scenario.
But first it will be urban combat.
you need to get that material to coast - Cargo ships and landing crafts plus supports and Aircraft carriers to assault and protection.
20 minutes into the future trope with a variation of inspiration based on the German-backed collaborationist government of Vichy France. Brazilian Amazonian states occupied by US military and private companies. America goes to nuclear war against China, MAD scenario for this countries.
The Amazonian occupation zone is the remnants of US companies and soldiers that were left behid.
...
It's kinda 20 minutes into the future. The US is the one doing the invading, who presumes THAT Brazil is somewhat Sinophile.

If the US has been nuked out of existence, the vast majority of US forces scattered around the world will either go native or go home. The US won't be invading *anybody* if its major population and economic centers have been glassed.

Also, if it was a full exchange between the US and a more-nuclear China, the chances are good that the Amazon rain forest will be largely dead: a good nuclear winter will wipe it out.
I had completely forgot the nuclear winter scenario. I guess I will have to swap it with something else, but equally MAD.
 

Dilandu

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I had completely forgot the nuclear winter scenario. I guess I will have to swap it with something else, but equally MAD.

Well, a scenario: China, using their new green laser satellites (capable of detecting water turbulence, created by submerged submarine), managed to pinpoint the exact location of all USN ballistic missile submarines, and Russia (using Chinese targeting data) swiftly took them all out with the massive attack of "Poseidon" nuclear-powered underwater drones. USA suddenly found themselves with their nuclear retaliation capabilities reduced to ancient "Minuteman" ICBM's in immobile silos - against fully modern Russian and Chinese nuclear arsenal.

Completely demoralized, US elites sued for peace on Russian/Chinese conditions, which included disestablishment of "outdated and aggressive" :) military alliances, like NATO. After that, the isolationist tendencies in US public took over, and USA essentially retreated to North America, more interested in solving the massive internal problems, than trying to compete for world domination.
 

Orionblamblam

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I had completely forgot the nuclear winter scenario. I guess I will have to swap it with something else, but equally MAD.

What's your goal here? For the US to be destroyed, or simply out of the picture? If the former, you have options like:
1) Plague (either natural or weaponized)
2) Complete economic collapse
3) Major civil war
4) Jesus came back and raptured all of His people - you know, Americans - on up to Heaven (alternatively, Odin came and yeeted all the Americans up to Valhalla). The rest of y'all now gotta deal with the Tribulation/Ragnarok.

If the latter, you have option like:
1) Moderate economic collapse
2) Moderate civil war
3) Major political shift to a non-interventionist/anti-globalist/America-first/isolationist foreign policies
4) First contact with aliens on the White House lawn some years before; the US is now far too busy setting up an interstellar federation and fighting the Goa'uld to bother with piddling South American trifles.
 

TheRejectionist

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I had completely forgot the nuclear winter scenario. I guess I will have to swap it with something else, but equally MAD.

Well, a scenario: China, using their new green laser satellites (capable of detecting water turbulence, created by submerged submarine), managed to pinpoint the exact location of all USN ballistic missile submarines, and Russia (using Chinese targeting data) swiftly took them all out with the massive attack of "Poseidon" nuclear-powered underwater drones. USA suddenly found themselves with their nuclear retaliation capabilities reduced to ancient "Minuteman" ICBM's in immobile silos - against fully modern Russian and Chinese nuclear arsenal.

Completely demoralized, US elites sued for peace on Russian/Chinese conditions, which included disestablishment of "outdated and aggressive" :) military alliances, like NATO. After that, the isolationist tendencies in US public took over, and USA essentially retreated to North America, more interested in solving the massive internal problems, than trying to compete for world domination.
I almost agree with you. Excluding your country's involvement, I think BOTH China AND United States could mutually destroy each other with orbital satellite weapons. I am currently unaware if such programs exist in the US though. Otherwise it wouldn't be fun.
One thing I didn't understand...you are Israeli or Russian? I visited Tel Aviv once. Liked it a lot.
Russian. :) From Moscow, to be exact.
You LIKELY saved me tons of time and research !
You are welcome) What else did you need?
I almost visited your country once. Hopefully this summer I can remedy that (planning for three cities : yours Moscow, Saint Petersburg and Kazan).

Well, planes. I only now of the strategic bomber PAK-DA in development. But not of any multipurpose planes (those that do lots of job in one : recon, bombing, fighting and so on).

Well, first and most important question: when is this taking place?

Second, we're fighting over the Amazon. Critical information, but how, precisely, are they fighting over the Amazon? How are their opponents getting access, and how does this coalition intend to deny access? In particular, what does their ground doctrine look like?
@CV12Hornet I am a civvie so...this are questions that I do not know how to respond. I expect Brazil coasts would be patrolled and cargo checked, so supplies should come through smuggling. Ground doctrine is something I really don't know.

I had completely forgot the nuclear winter scenario. I guess I will have to swap it with something else, but equally MAD.

What's your goal here? For the US to be destroyed, or simply out of the picture? If the former, you have options like:
1) Plague (either natural or weaponized)
2) Complete economic collapse
3) Major civil war
4) Jesus came back and raptured all of His people - you know, Americans - on up to Heaven (alternatively, Odin came and yeeted all the Americans up to Valhalla). The rest of y'all now gotta deal with the Tribulation/Ragnarok.

If the latter, you have option like:
1) Moderate economic collapse
2) Moderate civil war
3) Major political shift to a non-interventionist/anti-globalist/America-first/isolationist foreign policies
4) First contact with aliens on the White House lawn some years before; the US is now far too busy setting up an interstellar federation and fighting the Goa'uld to bother with piddling South American trifles.
MAD situation for China AND United States. What do you think of @Dilandu idea ?
 

TheRejectionist

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I had completely forgot the nuclear winter scenario. I guess I will have to swap it with something else, but equally MAD.

Well, a scenario: China, using their new green laser satellites (capable of detecting water turbulence, created by submerged submarine), managed to pinpoint the exact location of all USN ballistic missile submarines, and Russia (using Chinese targeting data) swiftly took them all out with the massive attack of "Poseidon" nuclear-powered underwater drones. USA suddenly found themselves with their nuclear retaliation capabilities reduced to ancient "Minuteman" ICBM's in immobile silos - against fully modern Russian and Chinese nuclear arsenal.

Completely demoralized, US elites sued for peace on Russian/Chinese conditions, which included disestablishment of "outdated and aggressive" :) military alliances, like NATO. After that, the isolationist tendencies in US public took over, and USA essentially retreated to North America, more interested in solving the massive internal problems, than trying to compete for world domination.
I almost agree with you. Excluding your country's involvement, I think BOTH China AND United States could mutually destroy each other with orbital satellite weapons. I am currently unaware if such programs exist in the US though. Otherwise it wouldn't be fun.
One thing I didn't understand...you are Israeli or Russian? I visited Tel Aviv once. Liked it a lot.
Russian. :) From Moscow, to be exact.
You LIKELY saved me tons of time and research !
You are welcome) What else did you need?
I almost visited your country once. Hopefully this summer I can remedy that (planning for three cities : yours Moscow, Saint Petersburg and Kazan).

Well, planes. I only now of the strategic bomber PAK-DA in development. But not of any multipurpose planes (those that do lots of job in one : recon, bombing, fighting and so on).

Well, first and most important question: when is this taking place?

Second, we're fighting over the Amazon. Critical information, but how, precisely, are they fighting over the Amazon? How are their opponents getting access, and how does this coalition intend to deny access? In particular, what does their ground doctrine look like?
@CV12Hornet I am a civvie so...this are questions that I do not know how to respond. I expect Brazil coasts would be patrolled and cargo checked, so supplies should come through smuggling. Ground doctrine is something I really don't know.

I had completely forgot the nuclear winter scenario. I guess I will have to swap it with something else, but equally MAD.

What's your goal here? For the US to be destroyed, or simply out of the picture? If the former, you have options like:
1) Plague (either natural or weaponized)
2) Complete economic collapse
3) Major civil war
4) Jesus came back and raptured all of His people - you know, Americans - on up to Heaven (alternatively, Odin came and yeeted all the Americans up to Valhalla). The rest of y'all now gotta deal with the Tribulation/Ragnarok.

If the latter, you have option like:
1) Moderate economic collapse
2) Moderate civil war
3) Major political shift to a non-interventionist/anti-globalist/America-first/isolationist foreign policies
4) First contact with aliens on the White House lawn some years before; the US is now far too busy setting up an interstellar federation and fighting the Goa'uld to bother with piddling South American trifles.
MAD situation for China AND United States. What do you think of @Dilandu idea ?
@Dilandu also helicopters of combat and transport troops (also planes).
 

Dilandu

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I almost agree with you. Excluding your country's involvement, I think BOTH China AND United States could mutually destroy each other with orbital satellite weapons. I am currently unaware if such programs exist in the US though. Otherwise it wouldn't be fun.
Green laser satellites aren't weapon; they are detectors. The idea is, that green laser light could penetrate water on significant depth, and scan for disturbances, caused by submerged submarine. Not "laser blowing up submarines"; just "laser scanning for submarines".
 

Dilandu

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@Dilandu also helicopters of combat and transport troops (also planes).
Well, combat helicopter - Ka-52?

1644173031599.png

Max weight 10.8 tons, combat load - up to 2.8 tons of weapon and ammo, 310 km/h speed, 520 km combat range.

Armed with 30-mm internal cannon (two 23-mm cannon could be added on hardpoints), six external hardpoints. Could carry up to twelve "Ataka" or "Shturm" anti-tank rockers, up to four "Igla" MANPAD, up to four containers of unguided rockets (either five 122-mm C-13, or twenty 80-mm C-8).

Transport helo - Mi-38:

1644173356778.png

Up to 30 passengers, or up to 5 tons of cargo on external carriage. 280 km/h speed, 820 km range.
 

Trident

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I gotta say, that sounds... schizophrenic. Israel teamed up with Russia?

That's by far and away the LEAST outlandish part of the (otherwise admittedly eccentric) scenario described, in fact. There is a large Russian/former-Soviet diaspora in Israel and since the end of the Cold War foreign relations between them have been pragmatic to cordial. Israel has supplied sensors and electronics for Russian military exports and even sold UAVs to Russia itself recently. Meanwhile in Syria the two were among first parties to deconflict their operations in the country and mutually agree not to get in each other's way.

I suspect the relative Russian restraint in selling things like S-300 to Iran can be attributed to a desire to maintain good relations with Israel as much as US pressure. So yeah, why not? South Korea incidentally is a similar example that tends to get overlooked - Russia has had far better relations with the South than the North for 30 years, again including significant arms trade. Even among close US allies, not everybody shares its knee-jerk hostility toward Russia.

Ahem: Buran.

I think that was a statement about current foreign policy, rather than Cold War space technology. Though I would not unreservedly agree with a characterization of Russian foreign policy as pragmatic, as opposed to opportunistic, either. There are most definitely strong dogmatic elements at play which caused Russia to shoot itself in the foot far more than a strictly pragmatic agenda would have, the current crisis being a great example.
 

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I am amateur writer, I am currently on my 26th page of what I am writing. I have so far come up with help of friends in the military :

1. Tank with two variants (tracks and wheels)
2. Support vehicle of said tank
So you want an armored fighting vehicle similar to a 6-wheeled Alvis Saladin, AMX 10 or 8-wheeled Mowag Piranha?

The 6-wheeled Alvis Saladin, Saracen and Stalwart were built in the UK during the 1960s and widely exported to former British colonies. The Saladin heavy armored car version sports a 75 mm gun. The Saracen armored personnel carrier version carries about 8 infantrymen in cramped quarters while the Stalwart cargo version is un-armored with only fabric over the cargo compartment.

The French AMX series is easier to convert from wheels to tracks since it relies on simpler skid steering. AMX mounts up to a 105 mm gun or a variety of missiles. The French Army bought more than 200 and sold another 100 or so to former colonies. Wheels move quicker and last longer on rough desert roads.

Finally, the current-production 8-wheeled Piranaha series from Mowag is best for moving troops long distances along decent roads.

Quick conversion from wheels to tracks was tried during the 1930s, but never achieved large-scale production. The American engineer Christie was the biggest advocate for quick conversion from wheels (road moves) to tracks (cross rough country).
Wheels are best for long road moves and minimizing damage to roads while tracks are still needed on the rougher logging roads. A disadvantage is that steel tracks quickly chew up and road surface short of thick concrete. Steel tracks are noisy, fuel hogs and maintenance-intensive. Mind you, perhaps the concept should be re-visited in light of recent advances in all-rubber band-tracks. Just wrap band-tracks around wheels to reduce ground pressure.

Also consider weight when choosing armored vehicles. Thick armor is great until you need to cross a bridge that cannot support a 70 ton main battle tank.
That is why armored cars weighing less than 30 tons (e.g. AMX series) are preferred by nations that cannot afford vast networks of hard-surfaced interstate highways.

Also consider air-portability. Heavy armored vehicles quickly exhaust airlift assets. Think transport planes the size of C-130, KC-90, etc. that can only carry one heavy tank at a time or maybe 3 lighter armored cars on short flights. The lighter the vehicle, the quicker it can be moved long distances. The quickest way to reduce weight is reducing the amount of armor. How about a 6-wheeled armored car with a lower hull armored against typical road-side bombs (Improvised explosive devices). The upper hull barely has roll-bars, a windshield and maybe a cloth rain-cover. If the armored car survives the first few days of battle, a second wave of transport planes delivers bolt-on extra armor for the top of the hull. That bolt-on armor can be tailored to be slightly stronger than local weapons fielded by bad guys. Bolt-on also allows rapid replacement of weapons (guns or missiles) tailored to local targets.

Finally consider amphibious capability. More precisely consider how well a lightly-armored vehicle can swim along Amazon Basin rivers and lakes. Most of that swimming will be along the river from one town to the next. Even the better amphibious vehicles can only come ashore on shallow, hard ramps. Again, lighter armor (only proof against rifle ammunition) helps with swimming ability.
 

T. A. Gardner

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For riverine warfare, the Brazilians, Peruvians, and other S. American countries already produce such vessels. Brazil probably has the largest collection and best. These are typical of the bunch:

Brazilian Navy Pedro Teixeira-class River Patrol Vessel P21 Raposo Tavares

1644175028246.png

This is a typical one. There is a small auto or semi-auto cannon forward, along with smaller weapons. The helicopter pad aft is a regular feature for a small helicopter used for scouting primarily. At the stern is a crane to allow SRIH boats to be deployed or handle a small landing craft. The ship is big enough to carry a platoon or so of troops in addition to the crew for operations ashore.

1644175263620.png
This is the Parnaiba, the oldest working warship on the planet by the way. It has much the same layout.

1644175377778.png

The Dr. Montenegro. A support and hospital ship Brazil operates as part of their riverine forces.

1644175502266.png

A Brazilian riverine flotilla on the Amazon River.
 

TheRejectionist

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I almost agree with you. Excluding your country's involvement, I think BOTH China AND United States could mutually destroy each other with orbital satellite weapons. I am currently unaware if such programs exist in the US though. Otherwise it wouldn't be fun.
Green laser satellites aren't weapon; they are detectors. The idea is, that green laser light could penetrate water on significant depth, and scan for disturbances, caused by submerged submarine. Not "laser blowing up submarines"; just "laser scanning for submarines".

I was considering what the recent demonstration that the Chinese tested.

I am amateur writer, I am currently on my 26th page of what I am writing. I have so far come up with help of friends in the military :

1. Tank with two variants (tracks and wheels)
2. Support vehicle of said tank
So you want an armored fighting vehicle similar to a 6-wheeled Alvis Saladin, AMX 10 or 8-wheeled Mowag Piranha?

The 6-wheeled Alvis Saladin, Saracen and Stalwart were built in the UK during the 1960s and widely exported to former British colonies. The Saladin heavy armored car version sports a 75 mm gun. The Saracen armored personnel carrier version carries about 8 infantrymen in cramped quarters while the Stalwart cargo version is un-armored with only fabric over the cargo compartment.

The French AMX series is easier to convert from wheels to tracks since it relies on simpler skid steering. AMX mounts up to a 105 mm gun or a variety of missiles. The French Army bought more than 200 and sold another 100 or so to former colonies. Wheels move quicker and last longer on rough desert roads.

Finally, the current-production 8-wheeled Piranaha series from Mowag is best for moving troops long distances along decent roads.

Quick conversion from wheels to tracks was tried during the 1930s, but never achieved large-scale production. The American engineer Christie was the biggest advocate for quick conversion from wheels (road moves) to tracks (cross rough country).
Wheels are best for long road moves and minimizing damage to roads while tracks are still needed on the rougher logging roads. A disadvantage is that steel tracks quickly chew up and road surface short of thick concrete. Steel tracks are noisy, fuel hogs and maintenance-intensive. Mind you, perhaps the concept should be re-visited in light of recent advances in all-rubber band-tracks. Just wrap band-tracks around wheels to reduce ground pressure.

Also consider weight when choosing armored vehicles. Thick armor is great until you need to cross a bridge that cannot support a 70 ton main battle tank.
That is why armored cars weighing less than 30 tons (e.g. AMX series) are preferred by nations that cannot afford vast networks of hard-surfaced interstate highways.

Also consider air-portability. Heavy armored vehicles quickly exhaust airlift assets. Think transport planes the size of C-130, KC-90, etc. that can only carry one heavy tank at a time or maybe 3 lighter armored cars on short flights. The lighter the vehicle, the quicker it can be moved long distances. The quickest way to reduce weight is reducing the amount of armor. How about a 6-wheeled armored car with a lower hull armored against typical road-side bombs (Improvised explosive devices). The upper hull barely has roll-bars, a windshield and maybe a cloth rain-cover. If the armored car survives the first few days of battle, a second wave of transport planes delivers bolt-on extra armor for the top of the hull. That bolt-on armor can be tailored to be slightly stronger than local weapons fielded by bad guys. Bolt-on also allows rapid replacement of weapons (guns or missiles) tailored to local targets.

Finally consider amphibious capability. More precisely consider how well a lightly-armored vehicle can swim along Amazon Basin rivers and lakes. Most of that swimming will be along the river from one town to the next. Even the better amphibious vehicles can only come ashore on shallow, hard ramps. Again, lighter armor (only proof against rifle ammunition) helps with swimming ability.
I do have something already designed, both thought for Amazonian and urban warfare. I will show later and maybe ask the artist who did the art for me to put it here. What would be missing is a transport vehicle (for both rainforest and urban combat, wheels) and a main battle tank for just urban warfare and open terrain like we have in Brazil.
For riverine warfare, the Brazilians, Peruvians, and other S. American countries already produce such vessels. Brazil probably has the largest collection and best. These are typical of the bunch:

Brazilian Navy Pedro Teixeira-class River Patrol Vessel P21 Raposo Tavares

View attachment 673683

This is a typical one. There is a small auto or semi-auto cannon forward, along with smaller weapons. The helicopter pad aft is a regular feature for a small helicopter used for scouting primarily. At the stern is a crane to allow SRIH boats to be deployed or handle a small landing craft. The ship is big enough to carry a platoon or so of troops in addition to the crew for operations ashore.

View attachment 673691
This is the Parnaiba, the oldest working warship on the planet by the way. It has much the same layout.

View attachment 673692

The Dr. Montenegro. A support and hospital ship Brazil operates as part of their riverine forces.

View attachment 673693

A Brazilian riverine flotilla on the Amazon River.
I honestly wasn't aware of it !
@Dilandu also helicopters of combat and transport troops (also planes).
Well, combat helicopter - Ka-52?

View attachment 673681

Max weight 10.8 tons, combat load - up to 2.8 tons of weapon and ammo, 310 km/h speed, 520 km combat range.

Armed with 30-mm internal cannon (two 23-mm cannon could be added on hardpoints), six external hardpoints. Could carry up to twelve "Ataka" or "Shturm" anti-tank rockers, up to four "Igla" MANPAD, up to four containers of unguided rockets (either five 122-mm C-13, or twenty 80-mm C-8).

Transport helo - Mi-38:

View attachment 673682

Up to 30 passengers, or up to 5 tons of cargo on external carriage. 280 km/h speed, 820 km range.
I wonder how their 20 minutes into the future trope versions would be...
 

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MAD situation for China AND United States.

Again, your timeline and goals are unclear. If the goal is to *destroy* China and the US, that's one thing, but if the goal is to simply keep them out of the picture, that could be very different. If your point of departure for the US is far back enough in time - say, Nixon for whatever reason doesn't win in '68 - then the US doesn't get China to open up. China remains ideologically Maoist, the profit motive doesn't enter into Chinese economy, private property remains forbidden: China remains perpetually poverty stricken, North Korea writ large, the Cultural Revolution forever. A billion, two billion Chinese don't matter if they're too poor to actually do anything beyond their borders.


What do you think of @Dilandu idea ?

The one where Russia launches a surprise nuclear strike on the US? Well, if you want *massive* nuclear winter to wipe the rain forest from Amazonia, Russia launching a global thermonuclear war would do the trick. Israel wouldn't end up being in league with Russia because there wouldn't be any sort of Russia left after the B-52s, B-1s, Minutemen and Peacekeepers finish turning their cities and military installations into pyres.
 

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@TheRejectionist Not gonna lie I'm still unclear on the sequence of events here. It sounds like somebody is invading the Brazilian urban coast and pushing into the Amazon?
 

TheRejectionist

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MAD situation for China AND United States.

Again, your timeline and goals are unclear. If the goal is to *destroy* China and the US, that's one thing, but if the goal is to simply keep them out of the picture, that could be very different. If your point of departure for the US is far back enough in time - say, Nixon for whatever reason doesn't win in '68 - then the US doesn't get China to open up. China remains ideologically Maoist, the profit motive doesn't enter into Chinese economy, private property remains forbidden: China remains perpetually poverty stricken, North Korea writ large, the Cultural Revolution forever. A billion, two billion Chinese don't matter if they're too poor to actually do anything beyond their borders.


What do you think of @Dilandu idea ?

The one where Russia launches a surprise nuclear strike on the US? Well, if you want *massive* nuclear winter to wipe the rain forest from Amazonia, Russia launching a global thermonuclear war would do the trick. Israel wouldn't end up being in league with Russia because there wouldn't be any sort of Russia left after the B-52s, B-1s, Minutemen and Peacekeepers finish turning their cities and military installations into pyres.
Timeline is future-science fiction. Not alternatehistory. So the scenario would be a MAD situation without nukes between the US and China.

@TheRejectionist Not gonna lie I'm still unclear on the sequence of events here. It sounds like somebody is invading the Brazilian urban coast and pushing into the Amazon?
  1. INVASION OF BRAZIL BY USA (mainly), FRANCE, UNITED KINGDOM (AND FEW OTHERS)
  2. CREATION OF A VICHY-STYLE PUPPET STATE
  3. CREATION OF AN CONGO-FREE-STATE-STYLE IN THE BRAZILIAN AMAZON
  4. POSSIBLY OCCUPATION OF THE COASTLINE AS WELL?
  5. RESISTANCE TO US OCCUPATION
  6. RUSSIAN-ISRAELI (few others too)COVERT COOPERATION TO HELP BRAZIL WITH WEAPONS AND VEHICLES
  7. NON-NUCLEAR CHINESE AMERICAN WAR
  8. BOTH OF THEM ARE K.O. afterwards
  9. INVASION FORCES CREATE AN HOLDOUT IN THE OCCUPIED BRAZILIAN AMAZON
  10. BRAZIL TAKES THE POSITION OF CHINA IN THE LUSOPHONE COUNTRIES AND THERE IS A SORT OF OVERSEAS FEDERATION (except Portugal)
  11. BRAZIL TRIES TO RECLAIM THE AMAZON
 

NoBarrelRolls

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How are the others countries in the region going to react? Specially those that are part of MERCOSUR.

I don’t think Argentina, Paraguay an d Uruguay are going to remain with their economies unharm and politically neutral with Brazil at war.
 

Orionblamblam

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Timeline is future-science fiction. Not alternatehistory. So the scenario would be a MAD situation without nukes between the US and China.

Well, there's yer problem. The story *seemed* more like alt-history. If it's future-history, the way to get the US out of the picture is simple: have Biden win a second term; the US will be in third world status post-haste. No need for China to do any more than they've already done: funded the Biden crime family in the first place.

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! You can't escape politics!!!!!

Hit that "report" button if you must... you've already read it! You can't unread it!


Alternatively: When Xi realizes that COVID wasn't the world-wrecking plague he'd intended and that the US is still staggering along, he uses technology that Clinton sold to his predecessors to set off a few EMP-nukes over the US. Boom, US is out of the picture. Then COVID-2024 escapes from the lab in Wuhan and wipes out 3/4 of the Chinese coastal populations before they realize what's going on. Since the US had gone down, the world aviation industry had gone into paralysis and then collapse, and without airliners zipping all over the place, China was more or less quarantined and COVID-24 burns itself out before escaping the Chinese borders.
 

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INVASION OF BRAZIL BY USA (mainly), FRANCE, UNITED KINGDOM (AND FEW OTHERS)
??? Why?
Brazilian Civil War however could suck USA led Peacekeeping initiative.
Brazilian Revolution, might trigger Civil War....

CREATION OF A VICHY-STYLE PUPPET STATE
The what?!!!
I took inspiration from history.

Timeline is future-science fiction. Not alternatehistory. So the scenario would be a MAD situation without nukes between the US and China.

Well, there's yer problem. The story *seemed* more like alt-history. If it's future-history, the way to get the US out of the picture is simple: have Biden win a second term; the US will be in third world status post-haste. No need for China to do any more than they've already done: funded the Biden crime family in the first place.

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! You can't escape politics!!!!!

Hit that "report" button if you must... you've already read it! You can't unread it!


Alternatively: When Xi realizes that COVID wasn't the world-wrecking plague he'd intended and that the US is still staggering along, he uses technology that Clinton sold to his predecessors to set off a few EMP-nukes over the US. Boom, US is out of the picture. Then COVID-2024 escapes from the lab in Wuhan and wipes out 3/4 of the Chinese coastal populations before they realize what's going on. Since the US had gone down, the world aviation industry had gone into paralysis and then collapse, and without airliners zipping all over the place, China was more or less quarantined and COVID-24 burns itself out before escaping the Chinese borders.
Why would anyone report you?
 

CV12Hornet

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  1. INVASION OF BRAZIL BY USA (mainly), FRANCE, UNITED KINGDOM (AND FEW OTHERS)
  2. CREATION OF A VICHY-STYLE PUPPET STATE
  3. CREATION OF AN CONGO-FREE-STATE-STYLE IN THE BRAZILIAN AMAZON
  4. POSSIBLY OCCUPATION OF THE COASTLINE AS WELL?
  5. RESISTANCE TO US OCCUPATION
  6. RUSSIAN-ISRAELI (few others too)COVERT COOPERATION TO HELP BRAZIL WITH WEAPONS AND VEHICLES
  7. NON-NUCLEAR CHINESE AMERICAN WAR
  8. BOTH OF THEM ARE K.O. afterwards
  9. INVASION FORCES CREATE AN HOLDOUT IN THE OCCUPIED BRAZILIAN AMAZON
  10. BRAZIL TAKES THE POSITION OF CHINA IN THE LUSOPHONE COUNTRIES AND THERE IS A SORT OF OVERSEAS FEDERATION (except Portugal)
  11. BRAZIL TRIES TO RECLAIM THE AMAZON
Okay, so I'm going to speak mostly on combat aircraft here, since that's more my wheelhouse wrt to what you've outlined you need.

First, I recommend this Flight Global article for the inventories of the world's air forces in 2021 as a starting point: https://www.flightglobal.com/download?ac=75345

Alright, aircraft. As of 2040, I'd expect the backbone of Brazil's fast jet force to still be the Gripen E; given the capability of Brazil's aviation industry, and current local assembly of the Gripen E, full production capability is IMO in handwaving distance by 2040. Most of the rest of your little alliance should still be equipped with F-16s of varying vintages, with Angola and Venezuela still hanging onto their Flankers and there are probably a few squadrons of JF-17s floating around.

Once they band together, and start relying heavily on Russian and Israeli assistance, I'd expect more Gripens (with Russian engines and Israeli avionics replacing all the American gear, most likely) assuming the occupation doesn't wreck Brazil's aviation industry along the way; Brazil having a small high-end force of Su-57s; and everyone else having the Su-75 flogged their direction.
 

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Ignoring major powers on other continents ....
What if the capital city: Brazilia's power declines and other regions start wanting independence from the central capital city?
... avoiding high taxes, border tarriffs, conscription, etc.
Rio de Janero wants to become independent, perhaps. Whether it wants to become a city state or control some of its interior is open for debate/civil war, etc.
Interior grasslands want to control their own destinies and cattle prices.
Amazonians want to be separate from the cities.
Mix, reheat and repeat.

Without Europeans, Asians or North Americans interfering, rebel groups can only hope for support from neighboring Latin American countries with Venezuela trying to nibble off a northern state of Brazil .... Peru trying to nibble off the Western portion of the Amazon, etc.
France does not interfere because of poor roads linking French Guyana to the Northern states of Brazil.

Narco-trafficantes have long controlled the Brazilian states nearest Venezuela and Columbia that are most lush for growing cocaine. Mind you, by now narco-trafficantes have developed a dozen other synthetic drugs that can be manufactured in micro-factories concealed in ISO shipping containers.
 

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