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German Special Air-Air Anti-Bomber Weapons

moin1900

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Hi everybody

This is all, I know about german Air-to-Air-Bombing !
Maybe someone knows more ?

Here the story of Jagdgeschwader 11, they used 250kg bombs with time fuze.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdgeschwader_11
There was also Kommando Stamp (Me-262) , they used AB-250 and AB-500 !

Here the Stimmgabel acoustic fuze
http://www.airtalk.org/1-vt27624.html?start=0
Developed for parachute-retarded bomb dropped over Allied bomber streams.

Some other german Air-Air Sonderwaffen (Erprobungskommando 25)

Schlinge
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3629.0.html

Krebs
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/neilpage/heavyweapons.html

Zellendusche
http://www.luftarchiv.de/bordgerate/waffen2.htm

More Sondergeräte
http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/s/SG%20Sondergeraete/Sondergereate%20der%20Luftwaffe.html

Thanks a lot for help in advance
Many greetings
 

Justo Miranda

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WGr.21 additional info
 

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moin1900

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Hi everybody

Thanks ! He-177 with 33 rockets
http://www.modellversium.de/kit/artikel.php?id=4130

Many greetings
 

Grzesio

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According to RFR minutes of early 1945, Kerze was a codename of vertical 21 cm rocket launchers - like the one installed in the Ju 88 or He 177 shown above.

Regards

Grzesio
 

moin1900

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Hi everybody

Thanks for the info !

Erprobungskommndo 25
http://startext.net-build.de:8080/barch/MidosaSEARCH/RL36-36639/index.htm

But what is "Liesel" ?

BTW here the "BOMBERSÄGE"
http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/s/SG%20Sondergeraete/diverse%20SG/SG%20bomberseage.html
Still secret !

Many greetings
 

Lauge

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moin1900 said:
BTW here the "BOMBERSÄGE"
http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/s/SG%20Sondergeraete/diverse%20SG/SG%20bomberseage.html
Still secret !

Well, what the site says is "Der Bau des Musters konnte nicht mehr beendet werden, die bei Kriegsende noch vorhandenen Unterlagen werden noch heute in den alliierten Archiven als "Geheim" geführt. " = "The construction of the prototype could not be completed, and the documentation available at war's end is still in allied archives, classified as "secret" ".

I would have to urge caution here. I have seen too many "researchers" (I name no names, but Friedrich Georg would be one of them ;)) latch on to some obscure rumour, then look for facts and documentation to support it. When they can't find any, guess which of the following they conclude:

1) "Oh well, no solid information, just a lot of rumour and hearsay, so there's most likely nothing more to this"
or
2) "No solid fact! Oho....Well then, obviously, this must still be classified as secret, since there wouldn't be such a complete lack of solid facts unless someone has gone to a great deal of trouble to have it removed".

As regards the above: Is there any reason to believe that "the documentation available at war's end" actually exists ? Having said that, the mentioned "BOMBERSÄGE" sound a lot more plausible than nazi flying saucers, manned ICBM's, neutron bombs and what have you. If the documentation actually is in allied archives, and really is classified as "secret", then my guess is that it's just because no one cares enough to get round to declassifying it.

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Denmark
 

Jemiba

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"..it's just because no one cares enough to get round to declassifying it."

Frankly spoken and very good said indeed ! ;)
In the desperation near the end of WWII surely a lot of things were proposed
or even tested, often with results, that could have been foreseen. To my opinion,
many of those "projects" may have been started "in the field" without proper
documention at all. And others were stopped, when their futility became evident.
And the allied interrogation teams quite probably were well able to separate the
wheat from the chaff ! So, if there isn't any documentation today, this could simply
mean, that there was seen no need to keep such nuisance ! ;D
 

moin1900

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Hi everybody

Wgr.21
http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/Ausr%FCstung/Waffen/Borsig%20WGr%2021.htm
There was also a FW-190 with three Wgr.21 tubes. The rockets were fired rearwards! Like "Krebs" !

RZ-65
http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/Messerschmitt/Me%20109/Me%20109%20F2/Me%20109%20F-2%20mit%20RZ%2065.htm

Fw-190 with R4M
http://www.stormbirds.com/experten/products2addendum1.htm
http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/Ausr%FCstung/Waffen/RM4Orkan.htm

SG500
http://www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/me163/weapons01.htm

Harfe
http://www.luftarchiv.de/bordgerate/waffen2.htm

Maybe someone knows more "anti-bomber" special conversions or "anti-bomber" Sondergeräte (Special devices) ? Maybe someone knows more about Air-to-Air bombs ?

Many greetings
 

lastdingo

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The 50mm Bordkanone and the heavily armoured "Sturm-..:" fighters of the Fw 190 series (special upgrade kits with additional armour plating) should be mentioned as well.
 

moin1900

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Hi everybody

I think I can answer my own question. What is Liesel ?
Liesel = Fallschirmbombe SD-500 Br (Parachute bomb). Another Air-to-Air bomb?

Many greetings
 

Jemiba

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"SD" in the designations of german WWII bombs means "Sprengbombe, dickwandig" (high explosiv bomb,
thick casing). Besides the effect of fragments, those bombs were able to penetrate buildings or other,
more solid objects and contained about 30% explosives in relation to their weight. A higher percentage of
explosives and a casing, that produces smaller, but more numerous fragments probably would have been
more effective, I would suggest.
Perhaps the "Fallschirmbombe SD 500" was a kind of retarded bomb ?
 

moin1900

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Hi everybody

Kommando Stamp used SD bombs.
http://books.google.com
Jagdgeschwader 7 'Nowotny'
Robert Forsyth, Jim Laurier
Page 45

Many greetings
 

moin1900

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Hi everybody
http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/s/SG%20Sondergeraete/diverse%20SG/SG%20Kleinluftminen.html
Someone knows more about the so called "Märzverfahren" ? They also wanted to develop an air-to-air version of the SC-1000 bomb with barometric pressure fuze.
Was there also parachute system for the SC-1000 ?
Many greetings
 

Jemiba

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Not sure, but the shown photos of the Me 262 carrying a "bomb trailer"
may be misleading. A similar photo, quite probably with the same
combination is shown in E.Peter "Der Flugzeuschlepp von den Anfängen bis heute"
(aircaft towing from the beginnings till today), but here it's described as
a 1000 kg bomb intended for low level attacks. And the bomb clearly is towed
with a towbar and not a rope, as mentioned in the text.
 

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