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General Aircraft (ST. and GAL.) designations

hesham

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there are a sevral companies we forget it,
for example : General aircraft Ltd.
I don't know any book about this company.
 

lark

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" General Dynamics Aircraft and their Predecessors "
John Wegg - Putnam 1990 - 225 pages
 

hesham

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Dear Lark,
I mean the english company General Aircraft Ltd (ST & GAL series).
this company had a many projects, so I hope to begin mention the series of
its airraft and projects as we are doing with Republic company.
 

Antonio

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I'm working on a Douglas list
 

lark

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My mistake Hesam , Sorry.

No books found about GAL , but there is a designation list
in The Aerplane Spotter 1948 I think. More details this evening.
 

lark

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Here it is:

The Aeroplane Spotter , June 26 1948 , page 48.

From ST.3 (Stieger-Monospar) to GAL.60 Universal.
 

hesham

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Dear Lark,

thank you very much, but I am busy this month ,please can you scanner that page.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Lark doesn't have access to a scanner right now.

Hesham, you might try sharing something of your own as well as asking for things. We are all busy people.
 

hesham

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Dear Overscan,

you are wright, but I tried to share in a numbers of titles by short informations,

also I display a lot of projects I don't know it and propably many of members,

for example under (Russian projects) title, there were a three projects I cann't

identify it.
 

hesham

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Dear Lark,
would you please tell me if you have the Aeroplane Spotter of june 26 1948 about these two projects for
GAL company :

first, in Na.39 competition which led to Blackburn B.103.
second, in F43/37 specification.
 

lark

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Dear Hesham,

The last design of General Aircraft was the GAL.61 a development
of the GAL.56.
General Aircraft merged with Blackburn the 1 Janary of 1949.

The B.103 and later the Buccaneer was Blackburn's response to
the Admirality M.148T or N.A.39 specification of March 1954.

Thus there was no General Aircraft proposal to N.A.39.

Armstrong Whitworth,Blackburn,Fairey,Shorts and Westland were invited to tender.Percival also asked to tender and Hawker did not
make an official offer but send a project brochure.

For the complete story I can highly recommend you Tony Buttlers
excellent articles in Air Pictorial - March 1997 and April 1997
"Choosing a Pirate for the Navy"
 

hesham

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My dear lark,

I think there was a GAL-23 aircraft design,because it was mention in
the Royal Air Force Museum site,
www.mda.org.uk/aircraft/7929.htm
 

hesham

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From my dear lark,some General Aircraft little known aircraft and projects:
GAL-26 :was developed from ST-25 as 4/5 seat light transport
aircraft with two Cirrus Minor I engines.
GAL-27 :twin engined high/mid-wing transport project with two
Menasco B6-S or De Havilland Gipsy engines.
GAL-28 :high speed single seat fighter for F35/35,project only.
GAL-29 :the first four engined project,as 12 seat transport aircraft.
GAL-30 :twin engined 5/8 seat transport aircraft with De Havilland
Gipsy Six II engines.
GAL-31 :high wing freighter monoplane with one 300 hp Wasp
Junior engine,project only.
GAL-32 :two seat trainer for Spec. T1/37,powered by one 205
hp Gipsy six II engine.
GAL-33 Cygnet :twin boom trainer/F.O.P aircraft,powered by
Cirrus Minor engine.
GAL-34A/B :two/four engined variants,as 14 seat transport aircraft
with retractable u/c, project only.
GAL-35 :radio controlled target seaplane,an unusual mid-wing monoplane
with a single float and pylon mounted engine,project for Spec.
Q8/37.
GAL-36 :twin engined communications aircraft powered by two 280 hp Gipsy six II
engines, project to Spec. T7/37.
GAL-37 :twin engined transport project, with two 600 hp Jacobs L.5 engines.
GAL-39 A/B :twin engined naval carrier-borne general purpose aircraft with two
1000 hp Aquila engines,project to Spec. S30/37.
GAL-40 A/B :four engined transport aircraft,pressure cabin, tricycle u/c and four
4200 hp Merlin (type A) or 4700 hp Hercules (type B ) engines,project
to Spec. 15/38. (also Fairey F.C.1).
GAL-41 :twin engined research aircraft,was the first British aeroplane to fly with
pressurized cabin,powered by two 190 hp Niagara III engines.
GAL-43 A/B :engined test-bed aircraft,project for Spec. 43/37.
GAL-44 :twin engined transport aircraft,powered by 890 hp
Leonides engines,project only.
GAL-46 :single seat high altitude pressurized fighter,project for
Spec. F4/40.GAL-50 :flying half-scale model of GAL-49 troop transport glider
aircraft.
GAL-53 :single seat naval jet fighter with four 20 mm cannons in
nose and a very strange air-intake shape,project only.
GAL-55 :trainer glider aircraft,to Spec. TX3/43.
GAL-56 :tailless research glider aircraft.
GAL-57 :powered variant of GAL-56 ,project only.
GAL-59 :naval target tug and plotter aircraft,a modified of De Havilland Mosquito
for Spec. Q19/45.
GAL-61 :was developed from GAL-56 as tailless research glider.
 

hesham

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to completing,

ST-5,ST-7,ST-8 and ST-9 were not aircraft but just a wings to use by anther
aircraft from different companies,ST-13 to ST-17 were unknown projects,and
I suggest that ST-19 to ST-24 were also unknown projects.
GAL-51 was a synthetic day landing trainer to give landing and take-off training
,one example was built,GAL-52 covered the design of a folding-wing version of
the Supermarine Seafire and the GAL-54 was just an auto-trimmer device.
GAL-62,GAL-63 and GAL-64 I don't know them.
 

Tophe

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hesham said:
GAL-46 :single seat high altitude pressurized fighter,project for
Spec. F4/40.
GAL-50 :flying half-scale model of GAL-49 troop transport glider
aircraft.
Missing twin-boom prototypes like the GAL-33:
GAL-47 Flying Observation Post : single engined (see http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/DeRoeckJoris/4805.htm )
GAL-48B Twin-Hotspur : twin-fuselage glider
 

stuckey

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I have been doing some limited research on this company in the hope that I may one day get something printed on it.

I think because so little is written and published about the company it is very fascinating.

It is unfortunate that a large amount of archive material was I understand junked when building work was done at the former factory where a large quantity of documents was found in the basement.

However i am still hopeful of one day getting something in print.

Whether there were any projects beyond GAL61 seems ambiguous, I have seen account of the GAL63 a development of the HP88 and the GAL65 development of the GAL60.

Richard
 

GTX

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GAL 46 proposal - 3 View & Cutaway drawing:




Regards,

Greg
 

Apophenia

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Very nice -- especially the cutaway. Thanks Greg!

I've gathered together Hesham's lists with a few additions ... and a few mysteries solved thanks to Lark.

The remaining big gap is the ST-13 through ST-17 projects. Also a few missing between the GAL 60 and GAL 65/Beverley. Can anyone fill these holes?
 

Apophenia

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ST.1 - Monospar test wing (for British Air Ministry)
ST.2 - Monospar wing for Fokker F.VII 3m (for Air Ministry)
ST.3 - Three-seat enclosed cabin monoplane, 2 x 45 hp Salmsons (aka Gloster S.S.1).
ST.4 - Monospar cabin twin, 2 x 85hp Pobjoy R.
ST.5 - Monospar wing built under subcontract (for "Spartan monoplane"))
ST.6 - Retractable undercarriage version of ST.4.
ST.7 - Monospar wing built under subcontract (for Saro Cloud))
ST.8 - (Monospar wing, test flown on Caproni Ca 97, delivered in 1933).
ST.9 - [project] wing ordered for Italian Romeo Ro.35 sailplane. Designed but not built.
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18738.msg211881.html#msg211881
ST.10 - Improved ST.4 variant, 2 x 100hp Pobjoy Niagara.
ST.11 - Retractable undercarriage version of ST-10.
ST.12 - ST.10 variant with 2 x DH Gipsy Major
ST.13 - [not used - jumped to ST.25 to celebrate Silver Jubilee of King George V]
ST.14 - [not used]
ST.15 - [not used]
ST.16 - [not used]
ST.17 - [project]
ST.18 - Croydon, 10-seat light transport, 2 x 450hp P&W SB-9 Wasp Junior.
ST.19 - [not used]
ST.20 - [not used]
ST.21 - [not used]
ST.22 - [not used]
ST.23 - [not used - 'GAL 23a' / 'GAL 23b' probably typos for GAL.32a / 32b/ to Spec T1/37.]
ST.24 - [not used] (Note "GAL 24 Cygnet" is a typo for GAL 42 Cygnet II)
ST.25 - Monospar ST.25 Jubilee, De Luxe, and Universal, 2 x Pobjoy.

GAL 26 - ST.25 development, 4/5 seat light transport, 2 x Cirrus Minor I engines.
GAL 27 - [project] twin-engined, high/mid-wing transport, 2 x Menasco B6-S or DH Gipsy pushers.
GAL 28 - [project] single-seat fighter for Spec. F35/35, 1 x Hercules, variable area wings.
GAL 29 - [project] four-engined, high-wing, 12 seat transport aircraft. (GAL 29A 4 x AS Cheetah X, GAL 29B 4 x Menasco B6-S, GAL 29C 2 x Bristol Pegasus XC)
GAL 30 - 5/8 seat transport, 2 x De Havilland Gipsy Six II engines.
GAL 31 - [project] high-wing monoplane freighter, 1 x 300 hp Wasp Junior engine.
GAL 32 - two-seat trainer for Specification T1/37, 1 x 205 hp DH Gipsy Six II engine.
GAL 33 - Cagnet, twin-boom trainer/F.O.P aircraft, 1 x 90hp Cirrus Minor engine.
GAL 34 - [project] high-wing, 14 seat transport with retractable u/c.
GAL 34A was twin-engined, GA -34B was four-engined aircraft.
GAL 35 -[project] radio-controlled target seaplane, mid-wing monoplane with single float and pylon mounted engine, for Specification Q8/37 (Queen Bee replacement).
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3655.0/
GAL 36 - [project] communications aircraft, 2 x 280 hp Gipsy Six II, to Spec. T7/37.
GAL 37 - [project] twin engined transport, 2 x 600 hp Jacobs L.5 engines.
GAL 38 - Fleet Shadower, 4 x 130hp Pobjoy Niagara IIIs.
GAL 39 - [project] carrier-borne general purpose aircraft, 2 x 1000 hp Aquila, to Spec. S30/37. GAL-39A (50' span) and GAL-39B (44' 9" span).
GAL 40 - [project] four-engined, pressurized transport with tricycle u/c. GAL-40a 4 x RR Merlins (4200 hp), GAL-40b or 4 x Bristol Hercules (4700 hp). To Spec. 15/38. (along with Fairey F.C.1).
GAL 41 - research aircraft (first British aeroplane to fly with pressurized cabin), based on Monospar ST-25 Universal, 2 x 95hp Pobjoy Niagara IIIs.
GAL 42 - Cygnet (Cygnet II, nose-gear variant), 1 x 150hp Cirrus Major II.
GAL 43 - [project] engine test-bed aircraft for Spec. 43/37. GAL 43A (Centarus) and GAL 43B (Sabre). [Won by Folland Fo.108 'Frightful']
GAL-44 - [project] transport, 2 x 890 hp Alvis Leonides Major.
GAL 45 - Owlet (DP420), open-cockpit Cygnet II training variant, 1 x 150hp Cirrus Major I.
GAL-46 - [project] single-seat high-altitude pressurized fighter, for Specification F4/40.
GAL 47 - Flying Observations Post (FOP), twin-boom pusher, 1 x 90hp Cirrus Minor.
GAL 48 - Hotspur glider, GAL 48B was Twin Hotspur glider prototype (MP486).
GAL 49 - Hamilcar Mk I heavy tank-carrying glider, to Specification X.27/40.
GAL 50 - half-scale flying model of GAL 49 Hamilcar transport glider.
GAL 51 - synthetic day landing trainer to give landing and take-off training, one built
GAL 52 - wing-fold design for the Supermarine Seafire
GAL 53 - [project] single-seat naval jet fighter, 4 x 20 mm cannons in nose.
GAL 54 - [project] light transport glider (led to GAL 55 glider trainer). GAL 54 designation may have been re-used for an auto-trimmer device design.
GAL 55 - side-by-side seating, two-seat, mid-wing training glider to Specification TX3/43.
GAL 56 - tailless research glider (3 a/c, three different planforms.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1948/1948%20-%200018.html?search=tailless+glider
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4498.0/
GAL 57 - [project] powered variant of GAL 56 glider.
GAL 58 - Hamilcar Mk.X tank-carrying heavy glider (assited by 2 x Bristol Mercury)
GAL 59 - naval target tug/plotter aircraft, modified DH Mosquito for Specification Q19/45.
GAL 60 - Universal Freighter Mk I (led to GAL 65/Blackburn B-100 Beverly), 4 x Bristol Hercules.
GAL 61 - Research glider (4th GAL 56 with retractable u/c and endplate fins eliminated).
GAL 62 - [?]
GAL 63 - aka Handley Page HP.88 (contracted out to GAL)
GAL 64 - [?]
GAL 65 - Universal Mk II (GAL 60 development, B-100 Beverly prototype), 4 x Bristol Centaurus
_______________________________

Also: GAL's unnumbered (?) 'New Medium Glider' Horsa replacement concept http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3564.45.html
_______________________________

Sources (via Lark)

"General Aircraft Ltd.: Potted History - IV", The Aeroplane Spotter, 26 June 1948

"In General Terms: Pictorial History of the UK's General Aircraft" by Daniel Ford, Air Enthusiast, No.93 (May/June 2001)
 

lark

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GAL 60 Universal Mk I development into the Mk II bore the designation
GAL 65 as well as the Blackburn B-100 type number.

Blackburn Aircraft since 1909 -Putnam-London. page 469.
 

Apophenia

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Thanks Paul. I've modified the comments on the list and added a few other details on sub-types.

I also forgot to post the sources, so those have been added too.
 

briant

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Very interesting posts on GAL projects,well done guys.GAL info is hard to dig out.I was told that all their drawings and photos were burnt post war by a demolition crew clearing the site.Despite this I have now found that the GAL V-6 Monarch engine was flown by the company that took over development in 1935 (Aero Engines Ltd) in a Desoutter 1. By the time my book is published in July /Aug 2009 I will show a picture of this combo along with over 50 other airframes that used Douglas and A.E.Ltd engines. The GAL V-4 did 100hrs in a DH60X Moth.
I have a question for you wizards...did the GAL 3 Cagnet fly first with a 50hp Aero Engines Ltd Pixie 4 cylinder motor.The choice was made in 1938 to use the Pixie because a version came with a cooling fan which was useful in the 33's pusher design with the engine well shrouded behind the pilot's back.
The fan layout was a left over from the Pixie's origin as the Weir 4 Cylinder Engine . In the W-5 Helicopter it was mounted in the nose with the shaft facing aft, driving a splitter gearbox to the 2 rotors. So,it needed a cooling fan/ducting at the other end. I hope you guys can dig up some mention of its use in the GAL 33. I know the 90 hp Cirrus Minor was the final fit in 1940-41 ,but I am hoping that the A.E. Pixie was indeed tried in 1939 first flight.
Best wishes to Hesham;you have been a great help to my researches in the past on another Forum.

Cheers

Brian
 

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A few comments on Apophenia's otherwise excellent list.
The "ST" designation of ST.1 through ST.25 was from the name of H.J. Stieger (not Steiger as noted against the ST.3), the Swiss born engineer who developed the Monospar idea whist working at Beardmores and created the Monospar company, along with fellow directors Rollo de Haga Haig and Alan Chorlton. The company was later reorganised as General Aircraft. As such, referring the ST.3 as the "Steiger three-seat enclosed cabin monoplane" is somewhat incorrect as all the ST's are Stieger designs. The correct Gloster designation was the S.S.1.
ST.13 through ST.17 were all projects / design studies, although details seem lost with time. Of course, if anyone should have any info.........!!
Designations changed from ST to GAL on Stiegers departure, starting with GAL.26.
The reference to GAL.23a / 23b would appear to be a typo for the GAL.32a and 32b submissions to Specification T1/37.
The GAL.63 was not really a "Handley Page HP.88 development", it was the same thing. HP.88 was the Handley Page designation, who contracted out the design to GAL, who gave it their own type number. The aircraft was built after the GAL/Blackburn merger, so was finally given the Blackburn type YB.2.
Many studies were also conducted on so-called "transformable deltas" - vg in modern parlance - in the immediate post war years, surely some of the earliest serious design studies on this in the UK.
A really fascinating company and quite a passion of mine.
 

ursrius

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Briant, looking forward to your book very much - keep us posted. Details of the Cagnet are very hard to find, so I'm looking with much anticipation to what you have.
 

Apophenia

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ursrius,

A belated 'thank you' for the corrections and clarifications.
 

Jamu

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Does anyone have any knowledge of the Hawker Hind bombers that were converted to dual-control trainers by General Aircraft Ltd.
during 1938 and 1939. Any information like serials would be a great help to my research.
 

robunos

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According to Arthur Ord-Hume's 'British Light Aeroplanes-their evolution, development and perfection, 1920-1940',
the GAL Cagnet was the GAL.44, not 33, and the aircraft never flew....

cheers,
Robin.
 

ursrius

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Unfortunately, Ord-Humes' books, whilst being very admirable, are peppered with errors, and this is one of them. There are many references to the Cagnet as the GAL.33, and I was once in touch with someone who has a copy of the Air Traffic log for Hanworth for the period June 22, 1941 to March 28, 1942 ; this records several flights by the Cagnet as 'T-0223'.
 

ursrius

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For Hind Trainers, try this link
http://www.kiwiaircraftimages.com/hindlist.html
 

robunos

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Ord-Humes' books, whilst being very admirable, are peppered with errors

Thanks for that, I'd always thought his stuff to be reliable.
In that case, how much veracity can I ascribe to the attached 3-view ,
from page 194 of 'British Light Aeroplanes-their evolution, development and perfection, 1920-1940'?

Regarding the 'GAL.44' type number, I suppose this might arise from the Cygnet being GAL.42,
and the Owlet being GAL.45...

cheers,
Robin.
 

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ursrius

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The illustration in Ord-Humes book originally comes from Aeroplane (Weekly) of March 8, 1939, presumably being its intended layout as it was then still being built. Ord-Hume is very fond of quoting from Aeroplane. Don't get me wrong, his books are pretty good, but in producing such large and broad tomes in a relatively short time there will inevitably be mistakes.
The attached can be found in Aeroplane (Monthly) of March, 1996.
As for flight details, I have:
C/n 106; C. of A application 21.1.39, not issued. Ff mid-1939 as T46, later T-0223. It was allocated W7646, NTU, and was at the School of Army Cooperation in June 1940. Returned to manufacturer, date unknown. Final fate unknown.
 

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robunos

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Thanks again, I know Ord-Hume used to write for the current 'Aeroplane', did he write the article you cite?
My collection ceases at 1994... :'(

cheers,
Robin.
 

ursrius

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That photo was submitted by the late Gordon Swanborough in response to a readers question.
The attached is from Air Enthusiast #93 and appears to have been taken at the same time as the previous photo. Probably also sourced from Gordon Swanborough since he was associated with Air Enthusiast.
The Cagnet is something of a "rara avis" - I only know 3 photos of it, the two I posted and one other that used to be on Jaap Teeuwens web site, but that site no longer seems to be around.
 

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robunos

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Thank you very much for that....

cheers,
Robin.
 

Jamu

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Thanks for your link, ursrius. Unfortunately this list is in error. General Aircraft Ltd. were also a repair and maintenance facility and
a lot of Hinds went there for overhauls and not conversions. I guess I will have to wait until a list from General Aircraft comes up and
of course this may never happen. Many thanks.
 

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Illustrations from "The Aeroplane Spotter - June 26 1948" Sorry about the poor quality, but better than nothing.

Regards Bailey.
 

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Stargazer2006

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Has any amount of information surface on the GAL.62 and GAL.64 post-war projects? Thanks to anyone who can help!

(NOTE: the aircraft you will find if you Google the former did NOT exist, it was my own invention on deviantART and the What If forum!)
 

hesham

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We can solve this problem,

if we know the General Aircraft Ltd. proposals for X30/46 medium glider Spec.
and T16/48 basic trainer Spec. exactly.
 

Stargazer2006

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hesham said:
We can solve this problem,


if we know the General Aircraft Ltd. proposals for X30/46 medium glider Spec.
and T16/48 basic trainer Spec. exactly.

Interesting. So these would be our missing designs? Makes sense.
 

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