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Grey Havoc

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Since the Global Military Spending thread is currently locked for some reason, I'll put this here for now:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...locking-britain-from-eu-massive-defence-fund/
France is trying to shut out British arms firms from the EU’s defence industrial programme despite the post-Brexit reset.

A diplomatic source told The Telegraph that Paris was seeking to restrict member states looking to make a purchase under the scheme to weapons made mostly within the bloc.

The European Defence Industry Programme (EDIP) is being touted by the European Commission as the largest overhaul of the Continent’s industrial base.

It will see EU cash pumped into joint procurement projects and the production of weapons, ammunition and other military hardware.

EDIP, which has been six months in the making, is part of a wider scramble to spend €800 billion on defence by the end of the decade.

French diplomats have insisted the tool should be solely used to boost firms based inside the EU, as well as Norway and Ukraine.

This means any member states looking to make a purchase under the scheme will be restricted to technologies with at least 85 per cent of its parts made in the bloc.


The demand means that Britain, which recently signed a flagship defence and security agreement with Brussels, will be shut out from the majority of projects being funded by the EU’s budget.

The UK will also be blocked from joint procurement projects under the EDIP scheme.

“Not even a month ago, we solemnly declared the turning of pages and opening of new chapters in our relationship with the UK,” an EU diplomat told The Telegraph.

“Yet, at the first occasion to turn those words into action, we have slammed the book shut.”


There are also fears the hard-line French position will see potential EU funding cut from factories producing Patriot surface-to-air interceptors, because they are a US technology.

It comes at a time when Nato’s European allies and Canada were warned they would have to increase air defence systems by 400 per cent to protect against the prospect of a Russian attack.

“It seems self-defeating to exclude investments in the one readily available air defence system, simply because it’s American,” the diplomat added.

Emmanuel Macron, France’s president, has consistently pushed for EU defence schemes to be used to boost the Continent’s own industry, rather than allowing funds to be invested in foreign firms.

Bogged down in red tape​

Many militaries across the EU, such as the Netherlands, Romania and Greece, have built their defensive strategies around the procurement of American systems, like Patriot air defence batteries.

To mitigate concerns, there are discussions over allowing the transfer of technologies from non-EU defence firms to businesses based in the bloc.

But insiders have said this mechanism will likely become bogged down in red tape, making it practically impossible to secure funds for.

So much for the reset...
 
It's the Telegraph, pro-US, anti-EU, so the actual situation probably isn't as extreme as this makes out.
Told to me in the eighties:
"Margaret Thatcher and Neil Kinnock take a rowing boat to the middle of a lake, when suddenly Thatcher's hat is blown off by a gust of wind. Kinnock steps out of the boat, walks over the water to retrieve the hat, walks back, hands Thatcher her hat, sits down in the boat. Next day's Telegraph headline: KINNOCK CAN'T SWIM!"
 
I guess the question is where the money for the EU fund came from? If the fund in question contains substantial pre-Brexit British contributions it’s one thing but if the funds are strictly post-Brexit, EU member funds, it’s another thing altogether
 
France isn't serious about defense, nor has it been in a long time. If you want to be serious about security, don't cooperate with unserious nations.
 
France isn't serious about defense, nor has it been in a long time. If you want to be serious about security, don't cooperate with unserious nations.
We're very serious about the English, at least since 1066...
Thanks anyway for your serious comment.
 
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I don't think anyone in the UK or US is stepping up to fund other countries' purchases of EU weapons, so it feels like a bit of a double standard to be complaining that European taxpayers should be subsidizing purchases of US or UK weapons, no?
 
It's the Telegraph, pro-US, anti-EU, so the actual situation probably isn't as extreme as this makes out.
TBH to the extent that it's true it'll be France advocating a pro-EU (and therefore to some extent pro-French) stance, rather than an anti-UK one. That's hardly unreasonable.

From an EU point of view, there's no real reason to treat the UK any different from the USA or Uzbekistan. Which was really an entirely foreseeable consequence of the UK not being in the EU.
 
Ah the illusion of 'Europe'.

No this is France playing the game of power for all it's worth and the EU is convenient.

I note Germany and others have set up arrangements to include the UK.
 
I don't think anyone in the UK or US is stepping up to fund other countries' purchases of EU weapons, so it feels like a bit of a double standard to be complaining that European taxpayers should be subsidizing purchases of US or UK weapons, no?
It's difficult for European nations to buy Eurofighters, Meteors, Asters or Storm Shadows (amongst others) without paying the UK part of the purchase costs! 85% EU made seems an interesting figure given the UK has a larger than 15% share in many major European projects (many of those competing with French products). As a comparison, the notoriously protectionist US is in the process of increasing buy America requirements from 55% (2024) to 65% (now) to 75% (post-2028).

UK Defence Export Credits and the US Foreign Military Sales mechanisms (and similar mechanisms in other nations such as France) makes who's subsidizing who a complex and fairly opaque question.
 
Is this Anglo-French friendship? Interesting.
 
It's difficult for European nations to buy Eurofighters, Meteors, Asters or Storm Shadows (amongst others) without paying the UK part of the purchase costs! 85% EU made seems an interesting figure given the UK has a larger than 15% share in many major European projects (many of those competing with French products).
Ah I see. But where do you get the 15% non-EU limit?

I've heard it's 35%... which seems reasonable, but admittedly could still be a problem for many European weapons with UK involvement typically hovering right around that 35% number (EJ200 and Aster would be fine, but UK share in Meteor, Eurofighter etc might be just above unless some components can be moved around from factories in the UK to Continental Europe).

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/european-defence-industry/
Procurement contracts will have to ensure that the cost of components originating outside the EU, EEA-EFTA states and Ukraine is not higher than 35 % of the estimated cost of the components of the end-product.
 
Ah I see. But where do you get the 15% non-EU limit?
I was referencing the article, and (mea culpa) I haven't checked whether it's right or not:

"French diplomats have insisted the tool should be solely used to boost firms based inside the EU, as well as Norway and Ukraine.

This means any member states looking to make a purchase under the scheme will be restricted to technologies with at least 85 per cent of its parts made in the bloc."
 
I don't think anyone in the UK or US is stepping up to fund other countries' purchases of EU weapons, so it feels like a bit of a double standard to be complaining that European taxpayers should be subsidizing purchases of US or UK weapons, no?
Which is why everyone should start buying weapons instead of waiting for ReArm to be cancelled like every project with a "euro" prefix or anything British.
 
German steel. For once you are a true European. But were you aware of that?

When it was first invented, the OPINEL blade was made of carbon steel. We still use a similar grade today, with an approximate carbon content of 0.90% which still has advantages over stainless steel. Our carbon steel begins the production process in Germany and is finished in France before being worked by OPINEL.
 
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