• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Fan-Wing aircraft

Weaver

Clarence: stop secrets...
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
49
Reaction score
14
One of Modern Mechanix's famous flights of fancy, but it says it's based on real research done into the "Magnus Effect", and mentions Anton Flettner, who built real stuff that really worked, so how much research was really done on this , and what did they find out?


http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008/05/15/spinning-wing-airliner/
 

LowObservable

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
2,202
Reaction score
130
Re: Spinning Wing Airliner

See this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flettner_ship
 

Stuka

Klaatu barada nikto
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
61
Reaction score
5
Re: Spinning Wing Airliner

http://www.fanwing.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkT4-Q7LGPQ
 

robunos

You're Mad, You Are.....
Senior Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
1,896
Reaction score
234
Re: Spinning Wing Airliner

http://www.fanwing.com/

interesting. from a quick skim read of the site, seems like a candidate for the JCALS mission, mind you, it suffers from a major case of NIH syndrome, :-[ :mad:

cheers,
Robin.
 

Abraham Gubler

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
3,555
Reaction score
163
Should be called the ‘combine harvester wing’ or ‘hair roller wing’...
 

Orionblamblam

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
7,916
Reaction score
1,164
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asJqvrikQSA#

Actually it is a fairly old concept... goes back to at least the 30's. But this may be the most advanced/successful demo model to date.

My question: what *the* *hell* is the reporterette saying at beginning and end of her report? At the beginning, right after "thank you very much" she says something that sounds like she has a mouthful of marbles. Then at 7 seconds in she says "good morning, bowler da" or some such. And right at the end, her very last words are in Elvish or something... Curiosity abounds.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,438
Reaction score
3,455
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

She's speaking Welsh. Welsh people do that sometimes.
 
O

Overkiller

Guest
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

:D :D :D :D :D :D

Beat me to the punch Paul!

It's Welsh (I think....) given that Aberporth is in Wales

Haven't a clue what she's saying though. The Welsh language has been impenetrable to outsiders since the terrible vowel drought of '37.....
 

Orionblamblam

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
7,916
Reaction score
1,164
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

overscan said:
She's speaking Welsh. Welsh people do that sometimes.

Ah. I knew I recognized that gibberish from *somewhere....*


"I am very drunk."
 

Orionblamblam

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
7,916
Reaction score
1,164
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

Overkiller said:
The Welsh language has been impenetrable to outsiders since the terrible vowel drought of '37.....

Heh. The few bits of Welsh I've heard spoken, I would be hard pressed to even comprehend the *sounds.* I'm *terrible* with foreign languages (I've tried French, Spanish, German and FORTRAN, all disastrous failures), but I can usually at least figure out how to mimic the sounds. But Welsh... it's like it tastes purple.
 

Orionblamblam

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
7,916
Reaction score
1,164
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

Anyway, the fanwing has some relationship to the cycloid wings of the 30's:


And the Lockheed "Omega" cargo lifter of the late '70's/early '80's used a transverse fan embedded in the wing for lift and propulsion:
 

Attachments

  • omega.jpg
    omega.jpg
    43.5 KB · Views: 185

Spring

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

How does it work, is not basically a helicopter with their blades rotation in different arrange?, or is some kind of air pump, the concept is interesting, but not sure if is basically an helo

I think i got it better, i think the concept of the 30s is not the same, i guess (not sure), the fanwing works accelerating the relative flow speed on the inner-upper surface of the "tube", i guess is actually different than a helo, still with some doubts, the concept is new for me
 

AeroFranz

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,260
Reaction score
162
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

The fanwing website has some explanation on the concept. It uses the squirrel cage fan for both lift and propulsion. Control in roll is achieved by spoiling lift on one side using a hinged flap on the front of the fan leading edge.

www.fanwing.com

in particular there is an "articles" section that has a lot of clippings with diagrams.

Compared to some of the concepts posted by Scott, the Fanwing's fan blades have fixed pitch.
That Lockheed Omega is new to me...and interesting. Any more information on the concept or a patent?
Thanks!
 

amsci99

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
238
Reaction score
6
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

There appears to be a difference between the cycloidal propulsion and the Fanwing, at least according to the link below.

http://rotoplan.narod.ru/history_e.htm
 

Orionblamblam

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
7,916
Reaction score
1,164
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

AeroFranz said:
That Lockheed Omega is new to me...and interesting. Any more information on the concept or a patent?

The aircraft configuration was granted a design patent. I've not found any propulsion system patents, but I haven;t really looked. A few AIAA papers, though.

Test of a high efficiency transverse fan
HANCOCK, J. P., Lockheed-Georgia Co., Marietta, Ga.
AIAA-1980-1243


Advanced Civil Military Aircraft - Technical feasibility assessment
BROWN, S. L., USAF, Wright Aeronautical Laboratories, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH; ESTILL, G. T., USAF, Wright Aeronautical Laboratories, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH
AIAA-1983-1592
 

Attachments

  • AIAA83-1592.jpg
    AIAA83-1592.jpg
    9.7 KB · Views: 541
  • AIAA80-1243.jpg
    AIAA80-1243.jpg
    83.5 KB · Views: 213
  • us0d0269669-002.jpg
    us0d0269669-002.jpg
    43.2 KB · Views: 213

Trident

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
1,021
Reaction score
254
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

amsci99 said:
There appears to be a difference between the cycloidal propulsion and the Fanwing, at least according to the link below.

http://rotoplan.narod.ru/history_e.htm

"Cycloidal propeller was patented by prof. Frederick Kurt Kirsten in the beginning of 1920th. The idea was supported by William Boeing. Have begun with a water propeller. Tests of a vessel model have passed successfully, but further business has failed, and Kirsten has sold the patents to Voith-Schneider Corp."

I was about to point out the similarity between naval Voith-Schneider propulsors and the Cycloplane's wings...
 

AeroFranz

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,260
Reaction score
162
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

Thanks for the references!
 

Lauge

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
435
Reaction score
7
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

Trident said:
I was about to point out the similarity between naval Voith-Schneider propulsors and the Cycloplane's wings...

Ahem... http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2837.0/highlight,cyclogyro.html ;)

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Denmark
 

Trident

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
1,021
Reaction score
254
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

Quite, but I don't visit the early projects section except by clicking on it by accident, so I beg your pardon ;)
 

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,228
Reaction score
945
AirInternational N°2 2012 has an article about the FanWing designs made by Patrick Peebles,
director of the FanWng Ltd. Could be a very interesting concept indeed, if the claims made by
this company will prove to be realistic. The layout has changed since the first presentation, from
a conventional fuselage with a T-tail, to a kind of twin-boom aircraft, with the booms at the tips
of the wing. From what is said in the above mentioned article, the FanWing could be a candidate
for the "The Best "Possible" STOSL Aircraft: Lets design it" thread (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14200.0.html),
thread.
Nevertheless, still yet only small scale models were actually flown and since the thrust-augmented
wing concept, I'll remain a little bit sceptical about such predictions, at least until a full scale demonstrator
will take to the air.
 

shedofdread

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
456
Reaction score
85
Re: FanWing aircraft

Re the fan wing, I saw it fly at one of the Parc Aberporth UAS events some years ago. I can't comment on efficiency etc but it certainly did STOL OK and appeared to be adequately controllable. It was only an early prototype so maybe this isn't a fair criticism but one area that I felt did let them down somewhat was the quality of their engineering.
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
457
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

Some pictures of the FanWing flying test models, from a company document:
 

Attachments

  • FanWing 6.jpg
    FanWing 6.jpg
    21 KB · Views: 14
  • FanWing 5.jpg
    FanWing 5.jpg
    39 KB · Views: 10
  • FanWing 4.jpg
    FanWing 4.jpg
    61.3 KB · Views: 14
  • FanWing 3.jpg
    FanWing 3.jpg
    74.6 KB · Views: 15
  • FanWing 2.jpg
    FanWing 2.jpg
    62.4 KB · Views: 105
  • FanWing 1.jpg
    FanWing 1.jpg
    56.6 KB · Views: 113

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
457
Re: Fanwing concept flight model (and a language question... Gaelic?)

Future applications of the FanWing system on manned aircraft, from the same document:
 

Attachments

  • FanWing principle 1.jpg
    FanWing principle 1.jpg
    47.8 KB · Views: 28
  • FanWing 04.jpg
    FanWing 04.jpg
    47.4 KB · Views: 31
  • FanWing 03.jpg
    FanWing 03.jpg
    58.3 KB · Views: 31
  • FanWing 02.jpg
    FanWing 02.jpg
    153.3 KB · Views: 25
  • FanWing 01.jpg
    FanWing 01.jpg
    126.6 KB · Views: 24

theponja

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
428
Reaction score
12
I think the Fan-Wing concept is particular enough to keep it separated from the more generic Cyclogyros.
 

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,228
Reaction score
945
The answer may lay in Tridents post from 19th of March 2009. The Cyclogyros uses articulated
rotor blades, whereas those in the fanwing generally seems to be fixed.
 

AeroFranz

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,260
Reaction score
162
yeah, assuming you used one engine per side. I guess if you used a single engine to power both wing fans, then you would maintain symmetrical conditions no matter what (even in the event of engine failure, at which point there is no asymmetry but no lift either!)
 

theponja

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
428
Reaction score
12
"The FanWing has two engines for redundancy. One engine can keep the aircraft in the air and give it the power to climb. But if the worst happens pilots can autorotate down with a glide ratio of about 3:1. Peebles likes to say the FanWing is similar to a helicopter but with a much simpler drive train."

from:
http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2011/111122could-fanwing-go-from-lsa-to-heavy-lifter.html?WT.mc_id=&wtmcid;&WT.mc_sect=tts


In the Ultraligth the engines are in the wing tips.


BTW I understand they're are just a draft for a presentation, but I was wondering about the engine in the Cargo Lift project, they look to me a some kind of jet but I don't see any exhaust.
 

Attachments

  • fw_engine.jpg
    fw_engine.jpg
    79 KB · Views: 154
  • FanWing 03.jpg
    FanWing 03.jpg
    58.3 KB · Views: 153
  • FanWing 04.jpg
    FanWing 04.jpg
    47.4 KB · Views: 151

AeroFranz

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,260
Reaction score
162
Probably turboshafts, since the desired output is shaft power.
 

Sundog

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
2,821
Reaction score
267
Alcides said:
BTW I understand they're are just a draft for a presentation, but I was wondering about the engine in the Cargo Lift project, they look to me a some kind of jet but I don't see any exhaust.

The engines exhaust is at the top of the center pod that houses them. You can see the two exahusts in the images quite clearly.
 

Rafael

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Oct 23, 2006
Messages
128
Reaction score
4
Theoretically this concept provides very short take-off capabilities, and as seen in the cargo plane concept, a *very credible* thrust to haul loads on board.

Would it be possible to:

1.- thrust-wise, tilt wings leading-edge upwards to create a VTOL aircraft?

2.- based on this fan-art from user Planeman (a brilliant and very prolific graphics artist) elsewhere in the ´net, Would a concept like this generate sufficient power to lift a small fighter?

Edit:
3.- Is D-Dalus also practicable? I mean, I see in these concepts no "duct-loss" like other V/Stol concepts, but I worry about the volume of cold air needed to provide lift

Note: Mods, if this post is more appropriate for other topic, please feel free to move it, since I believe I am mixin fan wing with fan-in-wing and fan-in-fuselage concepts
 

Attachments

  • Picture10 vtol .png
    Picture10 vtol .png
    54 KB · Views: 122
  • SQUIRRELCAGELIFTFAN vtol .jpeg
    SQUIRRELCAGELIFTFAN vtol .jpeg
    61 KB · Views: 117
  • vtol1beq0.jpeg
    vtol1beq0.jpeg
    43.6 KB · Views: 40

Orionblamblam

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
7,916
Reaction score
1,164
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
Rafael said:
2.- based on this fan-art from user Planeman (a brilliant and very prolific graphics artist) elsewhere in the ´net, Would a concept like this generate sufficient power to lift a small fighter?

It seems unlikely. Note that in the "official" renderings, the fan-in-wing system is *huge* compared to an equivalent conventional propeller, turbofan or turboprop system. So it would seem that the thrust per *size* of the fan is fairly small.
 

Similar threads

Top