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F-19: artists impressions of the Stealth Fighter

XP67_Moonbat

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OMG!

I took one look at the little black lifting body toy page 1 of this thread. It was like seeing an old childhood friend. I used to have two of those when I was a kid. The fins came off the first one. So I bought another one. Then later on I made two fins from an old credit card and superglued them to plane 1, canted outwardly. I dont remember what happened to them. Wish I had saved them.
 

Cutaway

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I know of "F-19A" models being released to the public to confuse communist spy rings during the 1980s, But is it possible this aircraft or somthing like it exists?. Its becouse the design from Monogram models is based on a design by Loral and is also more aircraft-like than the one made by Testors.

Wherever it is real or not, I believe the "F-19A Specter" would be a feasible design for a fighter aircraft that will offer a wide range of capabilities, even for todays technology.

The first image below is the concept by Loral Inc:

In 1972, the United States Air Force issued a Request For Proposal (RFP) to Northrop, McDonnell-Douglas, and General Dynamics for a supersonic stealth aircraft.
All three companies submitted design proposals in early 1974. On 2 September 1974, it was quietly announced that Northrop would be prime contractor of PROJECT SPECTER

(It is interesting to note that the design submitted by General Dynamics would later be the “cranked arrow” F-16XL that would later compete against the F-15E in the light strike fighter/bomber competition in 1985.)
Northrop went to work immediately following the contract announcement. Special Project 711 was underway. Northrop had to invent new technologies for project 711. Engineers decided to incorporate a Fly-by-Wire flight control system, use of carbon-fiber epoxy as the main component of the airframe and the new Sperry APQ-118 fire control system. Project 711 also had to make use of the new Hughes AIM-78X low observable air-to-air/air-to-ground missile. The decision was also made that there would be six preproduction prototype aircraft.
To speed the design and build process, Northrop used many “off-the-shelf” parts. The nose landing gear system was from the F-5E Tiger II, the main landing gear came from the F-18A Hornet, in which Northrop is sub-sub-contractor. The main landing gear wheels and came from mothballed F-4C/D/E Phantom II’s in the Boneyard. Northrop, acting as a foreign entity through the permission of the President of the United States, purchased F-16A canopy assemblies for the project. The majority of the avionics were also proven avionics systems found in other aircraft minus specialized ECM equipment.

Design features included a wing folding mechanism that are horizontal for take-off and landing, then can droop up to 30 degrees in flight and then fold back on top of the wing when parked. The droop tip design extends the cruise range by allowing the aircraft to ride its own shock wave, hence reducing fuel consumption. The intake ramps pivot up to fair over the intake for extended glide stealth target approach, the breather doors for the engine compressors open when the aircraft performing high-g maneuvers. The Rapid Rotating Weapon Pallet (RRWP) provides a wide variety of mission profiles for all weapons.
On August 2, 1982, Special Project 711, now officially called the F-19A Specter, made it’s official rollout from the Northrop Black Cat facility under extreme secrecy. Following a Northrop flight test program, the aircraft was delivered to the Air Force on 15 December 1982. Specter One arrived at Groom Lake, Nevada under the cover of darkness by Lt. Col. Chester “Devastator” Moore. Specter One became part of the 440th Test Wing, 199th Test and Evaluation Squadron. Specter crews were chosen from the top fighter and reconnaissance pilots in the Air Force.

A total of six pre-production Engineering Manufacturing and Design (EMD) test aircraft were delivered to the 199th in 1982 and 1983.
Specter One was used for flight envelope testing.
Specter Two was used for stealth and penetration testing.
Specter Three was the armament test bed.
Specter Four was used for ballistics tests.
Specter Five was the dedicated pilot training aircraft.
Specter Six, also know as “Groom’s Gal” was the first Specter to be used in a full up exercise and had the complete suite of defensive, offensive avionics suites installed. Complete avionic suites would be added to all aircraft by May 1984.

Specter Six, also know as “Groom’s Gal” was the first Specter to be used in a full up exercise and had the complete suite of defensive, offensive avionics suites installed. Complete avionic suites would be added to all aircraft by May 1984

During the Operational Test and Evaluation (OT&E) of the Specter in the May 1984, the aircrafts performed flawlessly. The F-19 held a mission capable rate of 98.7% of all sorties tasked. When word was delivered that the F-19 met all mission requirements; the decision was made to put the F-19 into low rate initial production (LRIP).
An order was placed in July 1986 for 100 F-19A and 25 F-19B two-place fighter/trainer aircraft from Northrop for the USAF. It looked as though the Specter program had nothing but smooth sailing ahead of it.
As with all black budget programs, no disclosure was made due to national security, but that year, Congress had changed the rules concerning black budget programs. Congress had demanded where and how much money was being spent on the program. After intense pressure, then President Ronald Reagan released all information on PROJECT SPECTER. The cost overruns were astronomical. The F-19 was 10 million dollars over budget. When word of this circulated around Capital Hill, cancellation of the program was imminent.

Almost one year to the day, July 1987, Congress announced that the F-19 Specter was to be cancelled. On an interesting note, Lockheed already had a stealth aircraft, the F-117 Nighthawk, flying at the Tonopah Test Range, Nevada. But since both aircraft teams were sworn to secrecy, neither knew of each other’s existence.
The news was devastating to both Northrop and the Specter team at Groom Lake. Due to the secret nature of the aircraft, it was decided that all six Specter stay at Groom Lake and be disposition on site:
Specter Two was stripped of it components and was towed to the flight line fire pit for fire training and of last report was completely destroyed after one fire exercise due to the carbon fiber make up of the aircraft.
Specter Three was used as a maintenance trainer in Composite Airframe Battle Damage Repair (CABDR) and by 1995 there was little left of the aircraft to be recognizable as an F-19; it was eventually hauled away to an undisclosed location. Rumor has it that it is buried under the Bellagio Hotel in Las Vegas.
Specter Four was placed out on the live fire test range and was eventually destroyed by it’s rival, the F-117A Nighthawk, aircraft number 790, in a bombing run.

Specter Five was destroyed in a training accident in 1985 when the primary flight control hydraulic pump failed in flight. The pilot ejected safely.
Specter Six was also destroyed in a training accident in 1986 when pilot, Capt. Dirk “Squarejaw” Pottenger over stressed the airframe in a 15g turn and catastrophic airframe damage occurred. Luckily, Squarejaw did eject safely and now in the Guinness Book of World Records as the only human to survive a 15g ejection from an aircraft.
Perhaps the most interesting disposition is Specter One. Specter One remained at Groom Lake for limited flight-testing. This aircraft was used to test a wide range of programs. Specter One holds the distinction as being the test bed for the now famous “Hill II” paint scheme, found on the F-4G Wild Weasel. In 1988, Specter One was turned over to NASA for High-Speed Stealth Research (HSSR). When NASA finished the HSSR program in 1994, it was stripped of all equipment and the USAF released the aircraft for static display at the Pima County Air Museum in Arizona. Specter One remained on display until 1997, when it was discovered, that a foreign government had, in essence, copied the F-19. The USAF took possession of the aircraft and it was towed to nearby Davis-Monthan Air Force Base. It is rumored that the aircraft stayed at Davis-Monthan for two-years under going an extensive modification program. In the summer of 1999, the last remaining F-19A Specter was seen taking-off from the main runway at dusk, never to be seen again.

EPILOGUE
Northrop tried to regain its glory in the fighter aircraft industry in the 1980s with the F-20 Tigershark. Even though it was flown by famous test pilot, Charles “Chuck” Yeager and endorsed by him as the finest jet fighter ever built, the USAF had no need for the aircraft. Since the U.S. would not buy the aircraft, there was little hope for foreign sales. After a series of fatal crashes, the F-20 was cancelled. But, Northrop had an ace in the hole.
Northrop, vowing not to be counted out as a contender in the stealth race, won the B-2 stealth bomber contract. The B-2A has met all design requirements and is in full production. But all was not well.

Once again the USAF released a design requirement for the Advanced Technology Fighter (ATF) program. Competing bids by Lockheed/Boeing/General Dynamics and Northrop/McDonnell-Douglas were awarded and a fly-off would determine the winner. Once again Lockheed came out on top and was awarded the ATF contract for the F-22 Raptor. Sources state that
Northrop’s entry, the YF-23, was clearly a superior aircraft and the reason it as not awarded to them was that Northrop held the B-2 bomber contract.
As for F-19A, serial number AF81-0001, Specter One, its current location and mission are unknown. Several sources, close to the author, have stated seeing the F-19A during operations over Kosovo and recently in OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM. Air Force officials do admit that Specter One is still in service and is only used when absolutely necessary. There is some talk as to producing ten more F-19’s with updated 21st Century technology and carrying the F-19C designation. Only time and budget will tell…
 

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flateric

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Cutaway said:
I know of "F-19A" models being released to the public to confuse communist spy rings during the 1980s, But is it possible this aircraft or somthing like it exists?. Its becouse the design from Monogram models is based on a design by Loral and is also more aircraft-like than the one made by Testors.

Wherever it is real or not, I believe the "F-19A Specter" would be a feasible design for a fighter aircraft that will offer a wide range of capabilities, even for todays technology.
I believe it's not. Planform shapes (continously curved edges) proved to be much more RCS hot-spots that one could suggest - in one moment of time you have at least one sector of edge looking stright to radar (it was one of the mistakes learned by MDC during their Quiet Attack Aircraft study for ONR in early 70s).
In terms of aerodynamics this configuration for a *fighter* is non-plausable, too - imagine things that will happen to intakes airflow and tiny vertical tails already at AoA=5.
This is oneof the cases when rule 'nice looking aircraft fly nice' is non-applicable.
 

frank

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In 1983, Revell-Germany announced a 1/32 model of the "F-19" & it was supposedly based on the LORAL design. Rumor is the model was canceled at the request of the US Gov't.
 

flateric

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Interbational Combat Arms, March 1987, on Testors F-19 model
 

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frank

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Toy?! TOY?! He calls a MODEL a TOY?????????



flateric said:
Interbational Combat Arms, March 1987, on Testors F-19 model
 

Tailspin Turtle

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My theory is that if someone who had seen Have Blue described it over the telephone to somebody at Testors (and John Andrews would have answered the call), then what you might get from that conversation might very well look like the "F-19": single seat, low aspect ratio delta wing extending to the nose, twin canted-in vertical fins, engine inlets above the wing and "blocked" off, etc. (The model is by Dan Lee.)
 

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overscan

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I think its certainly possible. Reminds me of the story of how when Marco Polo first saw a rhino he thought it was a unicorn.
 

flateric

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he may be seing Have Blue in hangar while moving in car along the line - front views are almost exactly match
 

r16

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ı have seen a Stingray in a book published in early 1990s . Reputedly McDonnell Douglas entry in the programme won by the A-12 , you can always establish a relationship between it and Testor's Mig-37 , which we all know really infuriated Pentagon . But would it be "bisonic " enough to be the actual '19 ı wouldn't know .
 

The Artist

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Tailspin Turtle said:
My theory is that if someone who had seen Have Blue described it over the telephone to somebody at Testors (and John Andrews would have answered the call), then what you might get from that conversation might very well look like the "F-19": single seat, low aspect ratio delta wing extending to the nose, twin canted-in vertical fins, engine inlets above the wing and "blocked" off, etc. (The model is by Dan Lee.)
Now, The theory I'm proposing is based on a conversation I had several years back with friends in the Gateway IPMS chapter. (some of those friends worked for Big Mac - now McBoeing - at one time or another)

What if the shape developed for the Testors kit was derived from either photos or description of an airframe wrapped for shipment? If you look at the Have Blue shape and think about how it would look all wrapped up you could arrive at something suggesting the Testors shape. The same could be be said for a F-117 wrapped with the wings removed. Additionally I've heard of deception being incorporated into the wrapping process such as filled trash bags being placed between an aircraft and the wrap to distort the shape.

Mike
 

The Artist

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flateric said:
After unveiling F-117A heavily mastered photo in November, 1988, numerous attempts were made to imagine fighter 3-view and understand how all this faceted stuff situated.
First one comes from guru Bill Sweetman, with an additional effort from Interavia magazine artist to reveal facets at official photo. (c) Bill Sweetman/Interavia (January, 1989)
I'm not sure how to get the photo into the quote but the pic is on the first page of this thread.

Not too long ago I played around with the Academy 1/72 scale F-117 kit in trying to recreate the viewing angle in that first USAF official photograph. This was done with the mark-1 eyeball so I don't have any pics to post. I'm convinced that this pic was taken at a distance with a long lens then cropped to look like a close-up shot. Additionally, from the quality of the image, I suspect that the pic was taken from a frame of a movie - most likely a 16mm movie.

Additionally, I played around with my KR Models X-20 and I found that a similar viewing angle can create a deceptive view of that shape.

Mike
 

frank

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Just a few months after the Nov '88 F-117 photo was released, the now defunct(?) Lunar Models made a 1/72 resin model of it based on that view. It was shorter & wider than later more accurate kits. ISTR it used F-18 type of gear. I think I still have the model somewhere.



The Artist said:
flateric said:
After unveiling F-117A heavily mastered photo in November, 1988, numerous attempts were made to imagine fighter 3-view and understand how all this faceted stuff situated.
First one comes from guru Bill Sweetman, with an additional effort from Interavia magazine artist to reveal facets at official photo. (c) Bill Sweetman/Interavia (January, 1989)
I'm not sure how to get the photo into the quote but the pic is on the first page of this thread.

Not too long ago I played around with the Academy 1/72 scale F-117 kit in trying to recreate the viewing angle in that first USAF official photograph. This was done with the mark-1 eyeball so I don't have any pics to post. I'm convinced that this pic was taken at a distance with a long lens then cropped to look like a close-up shot. Additionally, from the quality of the image, I suspect that the pic was taken from a frame of a movie - most likely a 16mm movie.

Additionally, I played around with my KR Models X-20 and I found that a similar viewing angle can create a deceptive view of that shape.

Mike
 

shedofdread

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For me, the thing that makes the whole F19 (Loral) thing look utterly fake is the fin location. Far too far forward to offer any yaw stability.

BTW, first post here so 'Hi' to everyone - very interesting site.

S
 

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Just a few months after the Nov '88 F-117 photo was released, the now defunct(?) Lunar Models made a 1/72 resin model of it based on that view. It was shorter & wider than later more accurate kits
One of the big boy kit makers (italeri??) made a small-scale (1/100, 1/144??) double kit with a B-2 and F-117, and the F-117 was this foreshortened version.


cheers,
Robin.
 

flateric

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DML/Dragon 1:200
 

fightingirish

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attitude @ forum.keypublishing.co.uk said:
There is an 80's movie with Chevy Chase where he is an arms dealer with an intelligent UCAV.
It also stars Gregory Hines and Sigourney Weaver..
It's called "Deal of the Century".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085412/
Trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZEEcb_yIAg
In the end at an arms show the UCAV goes mental and Gregory Hines jumps into the cockpit of an F-19X and chases down the UCAV and destroys it..
Its the only movie I've seen with an "F-19" portrayed in it.
SpudmanWP@ forum.keypublishing.co.uk said:
Looks like it was neither, but a new design.
Takeoff

Profile

Head On

Three more shots:

Top


Rear


Cockpit
 

archipeppe

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Interesting, this movie is totally new to me (probably never made it all the way to Italy...) and indeed I'm a Chase's fan.

The fictional aircraft seems to have more connection with ATF proposal rather than the XST one. It seems also to have some point of contact with the later Northrop YF-23.
 

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shedofdread said:
For me, the thing that makes the whole F19 (Loral) thing look utterly fake is the fin location. Far too far forward to offer any yaw stability.

BTW, first post here so 'Hi' to everyone - very interesting site.

S
That's what nagged me about the Loral F-19 ever since I was a little kid, actually. I just didn't know what that particular wrong was actually called at the time. :D
 

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It wasn't exactly portrayed as the F-19. Its designation was "X-19F", IIRC. Also, ISTR reading somewhere that one of the Firefox models was cut up & used as the basis for the X-19F. I guess maybe the wing, part of the fuselage & maybe the engine intakes show the kinship.
 

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If anyone has a copy of the movie Brainstorm, (I don't) please take a look at it. I think there was an F-19 or other stealth fighter design in that one. They had their Human test subject in a full motion simulator flying the thing while they recorded his mind and you saw a quick CG sequence of the thing in flight.
 

Stargazer2006

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Going back on this page, I realize that from this angle, the movie guys got some design features incredibly right a solid decade before the F-23 ever came into view...

 

flateric

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please use damn attachments
don't post links to images at other site
 

Stargazer2006

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flateric said:
please use damn attachments
don't post links to images at other site
When it's my pics, fine, but here it's another pic from the very same page that's already linked there!!!
 

Nick

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It's kind of strange seeing my RAF F-19 being linked to from another site while it's actually sitting in my display case behind me here! B)
 

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Cutaway said:
I know of "F-19A" models being released to the public to confuse communist spy rings during the 1980s, But is it possible this aircraft or somthing like it exists?. Its becouse the design from Monogram models is based on a design by Loral and is also more aircraft-like than the one made by Testors.

Wherever it is real or not, I believe the "F-19A Specter" would be a feasible design for a fighter aircraft that will offer a wide range of capabilities, even for todays technology.

The first image below is the concept by Loral Inc:

In 1972, the United States Air Force issued a Request For Proposal (RFP) to Northrop, McDonnell-Douglas, and General Dynamics for a supersonic stealth aircraft.
All three companies submitted design proposals in early 1974. On 2 September 1974, it was quietly announced that Northrop would be prime contractor of PROJECT SPECTER
I just came a cross this....this is MY story to go along with the model that I build on ARC a few years ago...you can find the whole thing here: http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Fea1/901-1000/Fea915_F-19_Eggers/00.shtm
 

Stargazer2006

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stevee617 said:
I just came a cross this....this is MY story to go along with the model that I build on ARC a few years ago...you can find the whole thing here: http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Fea1/901-1000/Fea915_F-19_Eggers/00.shtm
I remember visiting your page years ago. Although it was clearly a fictional depiction of the F-19 project, I assumed at the time that the text did contain some true information. Did you actually made it all up? If so, you may not realize that this has been widely circulated on the web! And if there was some element of truth in it, what did you base it upon?
 

stevee617

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Stargazer2006 said:
stevee617 said:
I just came a cross this....this is MY story to go along with the model that I build on ARC a few years ago...you can find the whole thing here: http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Fea1/901-1000/Fea915_F-19_Eggers/00.shtm
I remember visiting your page years ago. Although it was clearly a fictional depiction of the F-19 project, I assumed at the time that the text did contain some true information. Did you actually made it all up? If so, you may not realize that this has been widely circulated on the web! And if there was some element of truth in it, what did you base it upon?
UMMM.....WOW, That's amazing. Because quite honestly, I really did make it all up. I actually put some humor into it that nobody ever got. For example:


"Special Project 711" - F-117 backwards
"Lt. Col Chester "Devastator" Moore" - Lt. Col. Moore was a USAF test pilot on the F-22 program. I got his name off the decal sheet
“Squarejaw” - A Mystery Science Theater 3000 episode that I was one night and the commentary by Tom Servo was priceless!

"the last remaining F-19A Specter was seen taking-off from the main runway at dusk, never to be seen again. " - That scene is from the CBC Production "The Arrow", where one Avro Arrow escaped distruction.


To be quite honest I am flattered! Check out my B-2 on ARC:
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal10/9201-9300/gal9207-B-2-Eggers/00.shtm
 

Stargazer2006

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Oh yeah! I remember that one too! But at least on the "B-2" page it was made clear from the start that it was an alternate storyline. Besides, the model was clearly inspired by the imaginings of Bill Gunston in his Osprey Warplanes series. Not so with the Specter. The story is so brilliantly written and the details so perversely accurate that many people fell for it at the time, me included! Congratulations.
 

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Is anyone aware of someone having built a flying model of the Testors F-19 design? I would be really curious to know how it flew and what it's RCS was. Would be neat to look at these design concepts and see if any of them would have worked aerodynamically and from the "stealth" perspective.
 

OM

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cthippo said:
Is anyone aware of someone having built a flying model of the Testors F-19 design?
...Not an R/C version, but I've seen a couple of scratchbuilt model rocketry versions over the years. Flew straight up pretty stable, but they weren't allowed to glide back down having a nose cone that popped off to allow the F-19 to dangle from a chute. ISTR some comments on another forum about 10 years ago or so about how a couple of old hands at Langley put the Testors kit through a wind tunnel with mixed results, but nothing I can pull up using Google-Fu, alas.
 

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Pretty sure I saw an electric ducted - fan one on one of the R/C forum sites. IIRC it flew well... or so the designer / builder said! It looked rather nice and was a composite moulding. So long as it's built light enough and there's enough power, I can't imagine there would be a problem flying it, apart from the fin location which might make yaw stability a bit marginal.

S
 

quellish

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Here is one:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=799368&page=2

Not sure if this is the same one....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MBzOaX8Sbs
 
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