Ebooks vs traditional format - the issues etc

sferrin said:
overscan (PaulMM) said:
I wanted to buy a single photo and the postage from the US to NZ was $38 USD.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a scam.
Click to expand...
Indeed. Many's the time I've seen something I wanted for a surprisingly reasonable price, only to be stopped cold by a ridiculous shipping cost. Part of it was that ebay took a percentage of the sales price, but not of the shipping cost.
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:
I guess what I am talking about is the permanence of media. Any scheme which controls access to an ebook you have legally purchased that is reliant on servers on the internet, for example, runs the risk of stopping working one day when those servers are turned off. This is not something you need to worry about with printed books.
Click to expand...
This is a second problem that is occurring and not just with books. That is, businesses want to least or rent you everything rather than sell it to you outright. They retain ownership and can revoke your access or use on a whim. The latest scheme of this sort in the US is "Build To Rent" (BTR). Home developers are now building entry level housing subdivisions and such with the intent of renting the homes rather than selling them. It amounts to their building a very nice trailer park.

Ownership is important here. If you own it you get to choose what you do with it. If you are just leasing or renting, then somebody else does and you could lose possession at any time.
 
People could try Book Depository which offers free shipping worldwide (as you can see on the top of the landing page). No, not every book but perhaps some that some here are looking for.

Amazon.com: Books

Online shopping from a great selection at Books Store.
www.bookdepository.com
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Ownership is important here. If you own it you get to choose what you do with it.
Click to expand...

Oh, if only that were true. I want to turn my house into a launch pad for Falcon 9 rockets, but oh, no, the city government won't allow it because it'll burn my neighbors house down. Fascists. Don't even get me started on how they responded when I started to build my own casino with blackjack and hookers.

T. A. Gardner said:
If you are just leasing or renting, then somebody else does and you could lose possession at any time.
Click to expand...
That's also true if you in fact own your own home. You'd think that if you paid cash in full for your property, that'd be the end of it, but if you buy it, put a wall around it and hunker down in the middle of it and cut off all contact with the outside, sooner or later the city or the county is going to come by and take it from you. Because you don't own what you own so long as you live in a place with "property taxes."
 
Orionblamblam said:
T. A. Gardner said:
Ownership is important here. If you own it you get to choose what you do with it.
Click to expand...

Oh, if only that were true. I want to turn my house into a launch pad for Falcon 9 rockets, but oh, no, the city government won't allow it because it'll burn my neighbors house down. Fascists. Don't even get me started on how they responded when I started to build my own casino with blackjack and hookers.

T. A. Gardner said:
If you are just leasing or renting, then somebody else does and you could lose possession at any time.
Click to expand...
That's also true if you in fact own your own home. You'd think that if you paid cash in full for your property, that'd be the end of it, but if you buy it, put a wall around it and hunker down in the middle of it and cut off all contact with the outside, sooner or later the city or the county is going to come by and take it from you. Because you don't own what you own so long as you live in a place with "property taxes."
Click to expand...
Hey, I wanted a nuclear reactor in the swimming pool to power the neighborhood... Wouldn't let me do that either...

Paying full cash doesn't mean you can own it without nonsense when it comes to property. HOA's (aka "Yard Nazis") are the best example of that.
 
GTX said:
Volkodav said:
too many of my books have been damaged beyond repair by years of storage in the tropics.
Click to expand...
I don't live in what is defined as the tropics (although it can still get very wet and humid) but when I did I learnt the lesson of putting plenty of silica gel throughout the library to help reduce the localised moisture.
Click to expand...
It was only meant to be two years and ended up being ten, also the books were meant to be in bookcases in an airconditioned house.

After three moves and our adult daughter (plus 1) moving back in with us, many of them never got unpacked, with the boxes stored in a shed. There were words spoken about why my stuff was in the shed instead of other peoples but, considering the whole reason we lived where we did was because I lost an argument, you can imagine how that one went too.
 
Volkodav said:
GTX said:
Volkodav said:
too many of my books have been damaged beyond repair by years of storage in the tropics.
Click to expand...
I don't live in what is defined as the tropics (although it can still get very wet and humid) but when I did I learnt the lesson of putting plenty of silica gel throughout the library to help reduce the localised moisture.
Click to expand...
It was only meant to be two years and ended up being ten, also the books were meant to be in bookcases in an airconditioned house.

After three moves and our adult daughter (plus 1) moving back in with us, many of them never got unpacked, with the boxes stored in a shed. There were words spoken about why my stuff was in the shed instead of other peoples but, considering the whole reason we lived where we did was because I lost an argument, you can imagine how that one went too.
Click to expand...
There's an old saying... Three moves are as good as a fire!
 
T. A. Gardner said:
That is, businesses want to least or rent you everything rather than sell it to you outright.
Click to expand...
As soon as the publishing industry can figure out a way to reduce piracy to a tolerable level (1) then they'll be at it, too. In fact, Amazon already are - see the Kindle Lending Library. Knowing Amazon's business model, I suspect they've figured out a way to extract money from the author even when their book is pirated, and figure that makes it the author's problem instead of theirs.

(1) It hasn't been zero since the Benedictine monks got going. But forcing a would-be pirate to copy the whole book out by hand, with only candlelight and a quill, is definitely one way to discourage it.
 
Orionblamblam said:
T. A. Gardner said:
Ownership is important here. If you own it you get to choose what you do with it.
Click to expand...

Oh, if only that were true. I want to turn my house into a launch pad for Falcon 9 rockets, but oh, no, the city government won't allow it because it'll burn my neighbors house down. Fascists. Don't even get me started on how they responded when I started to build my own casino with blackjack and hookers.

T. A. Gardner said:
If you are just leasing or renting, then somebody else does and you could lose possession at any time.
Click to expand...
That's also true if you in fact own your own home. You'd think that if you paid cash in full for your property, that'd be the end of it, but if you buy it, put a wall around it and hunker down in the middle of it and cut off all contact with the outside, sooner or later the city or the county is going to come by and take it from you. Because you don't own what you own so long as you live in a place with "property taxes."
Click to expand...

Hey. I have to keep my Jagdpanther and Jagdtiger hidden in bunkers. I don't even want to talk about my Ar 234 (nightfighter version).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
edwest2 said:
People could try Book Depository which offers free shipping worldwide (as you can see on the top of the landing page). No, not every book but perhaps some that some here are looking for.

Amazon.com: Books

Online shopping from a great selection at Books Store.
www.bookdepository.com
Click to expand...
And you don’t think they factor the freight into the book prices?
 
GTX said:
edwest2 said:
People could try Book Depository which offers free shipping worldwide (as you can see on the top of the landing page). No, not every book but perhaps some that some here are looking for.

Amazon.com: Books

Online shopping from a great selection at Books Store.
www.bookdepository.com
Click to expand...
And you don’t think they factor the freight into the book prices?
Click to expand...

No idea.
 
The Amazon list price for the following is $29.95 (they are selling it for less), while the Book Depository is selling it for $31.53.

The Yugoslav Air Force in the Battles for Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina 1991-92 : Volume 1: Jrvipvo in Yugoslav War​

 
edwest2 said:
GTX said:
edwest2 said:
People could try Book Depository which offers free shipping worldwide (as you can see on the top of the landing page). No, not every book but perhaps some that some here are looking for.

Amazon.com: Books

Online shopping from a great selection at Books Store.
www.bookdepository.com
Click to expand...
And you don’t think they factor the freight into the book prices?
Click to expand...

No idea.
Click to expand...
I have bought many secondhand books online, always at a bargain price. Usually I check out ABE Books, eBay and Amazon, and buy the cheapest that serves my purpose. Sometimes I have to wait a few years for the right price, I am penny-pinching like that.
Several of my better bargains have come from the Book Depository, and their quality of both book and service has always been up to scratch. I cannot promise that everything they offer is a bargain, but I can thoroughly recommend them.
 
When I was a young COBOL programmer of the IBM 360 system, my boss told me: computers will make paper disappear in five years... this happened in 1972.:)
 
I find when I want to relax I sit in my comfy chair and read a real book. When I'm looking for info I recall reading in a book, I open Kindle and the appropriate book.

Conversely, sometimes I not only recall the info I'm looking for, but roughly where it was in the book, which I can pick up and flip to roughly the right location then scan for the page layout I recalled and find the reference. I can't do that with an ebook.
 
Some magazines nowadays publish both print editions and online. Some, such as New Scientist, do not make the online version a direct eBook copy but publish it as a set of web pages; you can access the headliners freely, but to get at all the feature content and stuff you have to have a subscription. They do a discount option for combined print and online subscriptions, which is the one I have. Although I mostly read the print copy, when it comes to back numbers etc. the online is more convenient. You can't run a Google search on a print library.
 
Last edited:
I keep remembering how Baen Books got into e-publishing. It started as an advertising method and proved so popular that it became a profit center. Moreover, they do not employ DRM but price their product low enough that piracy of it is just stupid.
 
elmayerle said:
price their product low enough that piracy of it is just stupid.
Click to expand...

That's probably the secret to some sort of success. The real advantage of ebooks over real books is convenience... look it up, click on it and it's yours. But to really pull that off, the purchasing procedure has to be real quick and simple *and* the price has to be low enough to be basically an afterthought. If the market is big enough, *somebody* (not necessarily the author) should be able to make a fortune. but if the market is small - such as, say, books about obscure aerospace products, then a dirt-cheap option is basically insane. If you're only going to sell 500 copies of a book at $50 or 600 copies of an ebook at $1, the ebook option is dumb as hell. But if you're going to sell 10,000 of them, then hey presto, it's a good idea. The trick is figuring that out in advance.
 
elmayerle said:
I keep remembering how Baen Books got into e-publishing. It started as an advertising method and proved so popular that it became a profit center. Moreover, they do not employ DRM but price their product low enough that piracy of it is just stupid.
Click to expand...


Piracy still exists. Don't forget it. Priced so low? Lower than what? Free? Free is what everyone can afford. I keep sending takedown notices. So what do the pirates do? Put their servers in Ubombistan. Getting something for nothing will always sell.

Profit center compared to selling a real book? What's the difference between $12.95 and $1.95?
 
Reviving this thread a tad with a question to publishers/authors: assuming you already have had to create/format a book for publishing in traditional format, how much more effort is involved in using the same files to generate an ebook format?
 
GTX said:
Reviving this thread a tad with a question to publishers/authors: assuming you already have had to create/format a book for publishing in traditional format, how much more effort is involved in using the same files to generate an ebook format?
Click to expand...

The effort is minimal. You just have to make sure the original files are compatible with the ebook format you choose. That means doing a little research. It may turn out that in some cases, the pages will have to be reformatted. If art or photos are involved, check for compatibility regarding those things as well. Some ebook formats do not handle art well or photos.
 
I can see the value of E books for enthusiastic readers of novels, poetry, plays etc where they want to have everything Shakespeare or Jane Austen wrote plus commentaries etc. Same for travellers who need as many "airport thrillers" as possible.

But in my nerdish world hard cardboard and paper books with illustrations and a few inserted cuttings are a joy. Yes I love using my phone to get stuff too (like this site). But books relax and cheer.
 
Most random people I ask prefer real printed books. A bit of psychology. There was a time when reading a book and reading a magazine and reading a newspaper were clearly separate activities. When all of them are on the same screen, it turns it all into one activity. Not good. Not healthy, and use only if required.
 
An e-book is nice for portability, but a physical book hands down for me. There is something in holding a book, turning the pages, the smell of the paper.
Also, you can’t collect memories or autographs with an e-book. I have a rare Japanese photobook on the TV series Space:1999 where the majority of the cast (main and supporting) have personally signed it. It was fun hearing Martin Landau, Barry Morse and Zienna Merton reminiscing on what was happening that day when some of the photos were taken.
 
GTX said:
Reviving this thread a tad with a question to publishers/authors: assuming you already have had to create/format a book for publishing in traditional format, how much more effort is involved in using the same files to generate an ebook format?
Click to expand...
You can make a print identical PDF very easily. It will look fine on a computer, but not on smaller devices.

Making a book that works well on a phone or Kindle or similar is a lot harder for books with lots of photos.
 
A couple of thoughts...
Back in 1982, I realised that Apple had not provided their new ][e with back-compatibility. It would not be able to read my ][+ word-processor disks. Swearing mightily, I got a budget serial card, hand-wired RS-232 link to a BBC_B, patched its hand-shake code, exported my documents as plain-text ASCII.
Since then, I've done my best to keep 'base' versions of my documents in TXT or, at a push, RTF format. Yes, I write in Notepad.
Unfortunately, I've had to use PDF for news article / journal down-loads. Finding yet-again that an article references a subscription-only or pay-walled document is beyond exasperating. Sometimes, an Arxiv may be found. Sometimes, 'open access'. Else sigh, move on...

Books: My beloved wife joked that I'd more books than the local library, perhaps enough to re-boot civilisation twice-over.
This despite donating crate after crate of 'thrillers'.
My eyes are not as good as they were, my reading speed has halved, but I can still 'blow through' a fair-sized, well-written novel in an hour or two. I take in the page via a couple of saccades, 'watch the movie' rather than read the words. I literally do not 'see' the words.,..

( Down-side , writing is slow, slow, slow... )

About once a year, I'll look at e-books, but they do not yet seem to have enough page on screen to satisfy me. Besides, bit late to be starting now...

..
 
Writing will always have a learning curve. Always. And there's no reason not to do it regardless of age.
 
The K2 said:
An e-book is nice for portability, but a physical book hands down for me. There is something in holding a book, turning the pages, the smell of the paper.
Click to expand...
I get that and indeed have a library with a couple of thousand books. However, when one is wanting the knowledge contained within and also has things like travel to contend with, ebooks are wonderful. Besides, as one gets older, the eyes aren't what they used to be and hardcopy books don't have text resizing functions...
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom