DGA/ONERA/Ariane Group VMaX (Véhicule Manœuvrant expérimental)

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muttbutt

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Les voeux sont souvent convenus et pas gavés d'infos, cette année Florence Parly a mis le paquet
côté annonces. Elle a d'abord révélé la notification d'un contrat de démonstrateur de planeur supersonique, le VMAX, une façon comme une autre de raccrocher la France à une course commencée il y a des années outre-Atlantique et en Russie (notamment). Selon le DGA Joël Barre interogé par ce blog, c'est Ariane Group qui a été notifié. On sait seulement, pour l'instant, que l'engin doit voler en 2021.
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LSS, glider, first flight scheduled for 2021....Any French lads want to chime in? My French is rusty and I might be misinterpreting this.
 
muttbutt said:
Les voeux sont souvent convenus et pas gavés d'infos, cette année Florence Parly a mis le paquet
côté annonces. Elle a d'abord révélé la notification d'un contrat de démonstrateur de planeur supersonique, le VMAX, une façon comme une autre de raccrocher la France à une course commencée il y a des années outre-Atlantique et en Russie (notamment). Selon le DGA Joël Barre interogé par ce blog, c'est Ariane Group qui a été notifié. On sait seulement, pour l'instant, que l'engin doit voler en 2021.
Click to expand...

LSS, glider, first flight scheduled for 2021....Any French lads want to chime in? My French is rusty and I might be misinterpreting this.
Click to expand...

Not the exact translation but in essence whith few comments [brackets]

[French Defense minister] Florence Parly made several announcements. She disclosed the existence of a contract awarded for a supersonic glider demo called VMAX, "one way or another to help keeping France in the loop of a race started years ago across the Atlantic and in Russia". Interviewed by the blog, DGA Joël Barre [head of French armament authority] revealed that Ariane Group was the awardee. As of today, what is only known, is the first flight date: 2021.

BTW, what is mentioned here is a supersonic glider, not hypersonic.

A.
 
antigravite said:
muttbutt said:
Les voeux sont souvent convenus et pas gavés d'infos, cette année Florence Parly a mis le paquet
côté annonces. Elle a d'abord révélé la notification d'un contrat de démonstrateur de planeur supersonique, le VMAX, une façon comme une autre de raccrocher la France à une course commencée il y a des années outre-Atlantique et en Russie (notamment). Selon le DGA Joël Barre interogé par ce blog, c'est Ariane Group qui a été notifié. On sait seulement, pour l'instant, que l'engin doit voler en 2021.
Click to expand...

LSS, glider, first flight scheduled for 2021....Any French lads want to chime in? My French is rusty and I might be misinterpreting this.
Click to expand...

Not the exact translation but in essence whith few comments [brackets]

[French Defense minister] Florence Parly made several announcements. She disclosed the existence of a contract awarded for a supersonic glider demo called VMAX, "one way or another to help keeping France in the loop of a race started years ago across the Atlantic and in Russia". Interviewed by the blog, DGA Joël Barre [head of French armament authority] revealed that Ariane Group was the awardee. As of today, what is only known, is the first flight date: 2021.

BTW, what is mentioned here is a supersonic glider, not hypersonic.

A.
Click to expand...

Is there a point in building a supersonic glider....isn't the whole reason for their existence speed and lots of it? ???
 
Probably a mistaken use of language. No point to have Ariane Group working on something that goes only beyond Mach 1.

EDIT:
Effectively it seems eithther the quote was wrong or the text has been modified on the MoD website: https://www.defense.gouv.fr/salle-de-presse/discours/discours-de-florence-parly/discours-de-florence-parly-ministre-des-armees-voeux-aux-armees


MoD doc p17 said:
Nous avons décidé de notifier un contrat
pour un démonstrateur de planeur hypersonique. Beaucoup nations
s’en dotent, nous disposons de toutes les compétences pour le réaliser:
nous ne pouvions plus attendre. D’ici fin 2021, nous assisterons au
premier essai en vol. Ce projet, V-max, sera un saut technologique
pour bon nombre de nos capacités.
------------------------------

We have decided to notify a contract
for a hypersonic glider demonstrator. Many nations are equipping themselves with such.
we have all the skills to do it:
we could not wait anymore. By the end of 2021, we will witness
first flight test. This project, V-max, will be a technological leap
for many of our abilities.
Click to expand...
 
Sounds more accurate - and logical indeed.

FWIW, in the mid-1960s and/or early-1970s, France had engaged a still very low-profile experimental hypersonic glider project whose design was strikingly similar to ASSET. This project was known as VERA (Véhicule Expérimental de Rentrée Atmosphérique). This project went quite far. Today's literature available on this project is very scarce; I found no single reference on the web. I remember seeing, years ago, a full review in what seemed to be a low circulation French defense related journal.

This one of a kind VERA project should not be confused with Dassault's later Vehra (VéHicule Hypersonique RéUtilisable AéRoporté) initiative, whose name was certainly not picked up randomly.

Let's see what comes next with V-max.

A.
 
Antigravite,

the name of the sixties concept is actually VERAS (Véhicule Expérimental de Recherches Aérothermodynamiques et Structurales), see the description at https://books.google.com/books?id=vLadDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=onera+hypersonic+OR+reentry+%22veras%22&source=bl&ots=FzNjX_6CWz&sig=ACfU3U3lI13miIShmU7_e8O3B2T3yUJn7A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwir1u2X3YHgAhVDwMQHHSPSDtoQ6AEwAXoECFsQAQ#v=onepage&q=onera%20hypersonic%20OR%20reentry%20%22veras%22&f=false. Some more related information is for example in the files downloadable at https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1968/1968%20-%200282.html and https://commons.erau.edu/space-congress-proceedings/proceedings-1971-8th/session-7/2/, and additional background literature is referenced at https://rd.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-44472-7_1.

Martin
 
Interesting, looking forward for its future.

AFAIK, French maintained tight relationship with Russia and German in this field, given that their hypersonic demonstrators seems mostly flown with Russian Hardware like Kh-22 based booster and Tu-22M3 bomber.

Given today's situation tho, i would expect they will come up with their own booster.
 
A shame there isn't more info on the Kh-22 work. What little I've seen was fascinating.
 
Hi,

Moving at fast pace, maybe.
France could be ready to fly test their first Boost Glide HTV-2 like hypersonic missile demonstrator called "V-max" as exemplified by serveral indicators and warnings.
These might also be related to a new version of the M51 SLBM (M51.3 specifically)

Belows is a brief wrap up of cherry-picked available online resources.

A.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Two kickoff tweets by Dr Marco Langbroek #Vaccinate @Marco_Langbroek
"Dutch archaeologist & Leiden Univ Space Situational Awareness consultant (satellites). Spy sats, meteorites, asteroids. Asteroid (183294). Opinions my own."


Tweet 1/2
Navigational Warnings suggest that France will be test-firing an #ICBM from DGA Essais de Missiles near Biscarosse towards Bermuda between Apr 28-May 21.
Target area does not fit a simple ballistic trajectory
@nukestrat @armscontrolwonk @mhanham @planet4589 @wslafoy #missile

source:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1386290103719452677
View: https://twitter.com/Marco_Langbroek/status/1386290103719452677


Tweet 2/2
The dogleg shown is purely hypothetical and not very realistic, to be clear. Just to show the deviation from a simple ballistic trajectory.
source:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1386290105976041472
View: https://twitter.com/Marco_Langbroek/status/1386290105976041472


- - - - - - - - - - - -

Joseph Trevithick, "Warnings Posted For A Peculiar French Ballistic Missile Test In The Atlantic" — Warning notices have raised questions about whether France is about to test an improved submarine-launched ballistic missile or a hypersonic weapon. The Drive, April 26, 2021
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...french-ballistic-missile-test-in-the-atlantic
Laurent Lagneau, "Vers un essai imminent de l’arme hypersonique française V-MAX ou ou du missile balistique M51.3?", Zone Militaire opex360.com, 27/04/2021,
http://www.opex360.com/2021/04/27/v...ancaise-v-max-ou-du-missile-balistique-m51-3/
Yohan Demeure, "La France s’apprêterait à tester son missile hypersonique V-Max !", sciencepost.fr, 7/05/2021
https://sciencepost.fr/la-france-sappreterait-a-tester-son-missile-hypersonique-v-max/
 

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Hi.

On Monday may 10th, 2021, the French Defence minister, Madame Parly announced VMax's first flight test would take place this year, before year's end.
This public stament statement was made in the context of a wider defense-related IA roadmap. VMax will use this applied technology.

Implying: No flight test now. And what's currently happening oceanwards these days, drawing more attention than expected, just seems to be a regular test of the M51.3, an upgrade to M51, i.e. France's strategic SLBM. Too much hype for "nothing" (well, it's not nothing anyway — just playing with words).

sources:

Florence Parly, ministre des Armées, "Discours de Florence Parly, ministre des Armées, sur l’intelligence artificielle de défense."Creil: Discours, 10/05/2021
https://www.defense.gouv.fr/salle-d...es-sur-l-intelligence-artificielle-de-defense
Laurent Lagneau, "Le planeur hypersonique V-MAX effectuera son premier vol dans les « prochains mois », annonce Mme Parly," Zone Militaire opex360.com, 11/05/2021, http://www.opex360.com/2021/05/11/l...ol-dans-les-prochains-mois-annonce-mme-parly/

Pascal Samama, "Le planeur hypersonique militaire français fera son premier vol d'essai en fin d'année," BFMTV, 14/05/2021.
URL : https://www.bfmtv.com/economie/entr...-son-premier-vol-en-2021_AN-202105140223.html

A
 
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It quite literally flew over my head: for real, and metaphorically - as I completely missed what is show in the tweets (big contrail / smoke in the sky).
 
Biscarrosse forever. Was once Latécoère flying boats base (1937-1962); later moved into the missile age (CEL: Centre d'Essai des Landes). Also - almost launched civilian rockets, but Kourou was far better. And now - hypersonics.
Besides the aerospace stuff, it is a charming little place. Had in-laws there a few years back. Half of Biscarrosse is in-land, the other half in on the coast. Nice beaches there.
 
The sounding rocket is a unique Terrier-Oriole-Oriole according to Gunter Krebs and Jonathan McDowell

Archibald said:
Biscarrosse forever. Was once Latécoère flying boats base (1937-1962); later moved into the missile age (CEL: Centre d'Essai des Landes). Also - almost launched civilian rockets, but Kourou was far better. And now - hypersonics.
Besides the aerospace stuff, it is a charming little place. Had in-laws there a few years back. Half of Biscarrosse is in-land, the other half in on the coast. Nice beaches there.
Click to expand...
A great off season vacation spot for sure!
 
The photo with the DGA logo seems rather to show a Terrier-Terrier-Oriole rocket.

According to this ONERA document (courtesy of Philippe Varnoteaux), it took about 60 years to go from wind tunnel tests to hypersonic glider flight tests.
 

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Military​

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Discussion about historic or current tanks, ships, and other non-aerospace military technologies - not unbuilt projects
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Shouldn't this topic be in the Aviation & Space section or in the Secret Space Projects section?
 

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