Denhaut & Bellanger-Denhaut Aircraft & Projects

PhR said:
I found a 3-view drawing of the Terquem-Denhaut, a project presented in 1932 to the competition for Category E, won by the Breguet Bizerte.
Two configurations were proposed: military and commercial.
Click to expand...

Amazing drawing dear Philippe,and I displayed it in first post,but
it's front view,and I thought wrong it twin engined.
 

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PhR said:
I found a 3-view drawing of the Terquem-Denhaut, a project presented in 1932 to the competition for Category E, won by the Breguet Bizerte.
Two configurations were proposed: military and commercial.
Click to expand...
Great stuff. Are we to assume that this was the former Villiers 330 redesignated?
 
This is my opinion because the engineers who were in charge of the Villiers 33 and then 330 were Terquem and Denhaut. Now the engine configurations are different...
 
Fcl said:
This is my opinion because the engineers who were in charge of the Villiers 33 and then 330 were Terquem and Denhaut. Now the engine configurations are different...
Click to expand...
Well, according to Philippe Ricco, the Villiers 330 project existed both in three- and four-engine configurations, so it is very likely that one of these became the Terquem-Denhaut.
 
Stargazer said:
Well, according to Philippe Ricco, the Villiers 330 project existed both in three- and four-engine configurations, so it is very likely that one of these became the Terquem-Denhaut.
Click to expand...
IMHO 33 was a 4 engines, 330 only a 2 engines and the TD E10 a 3 engines...
 
Back home, I can therefore consult my reading notes.

- Villiers 33 4 engines - Jupiter 420 --> Dumesnil papers - 130 AP-26 - Archives nationales - France
- Villiers 330 --> ONERA Archives 2012 ZN85 - rapport 663A - SHD Chatellerault - France
- Terquem-Denhaut E10 - 3 engines --> blue prints - Dossier Denhaut - Musée de l'hydraviation de Biscarrosse - France

:)
Hope this helps.
 
Oups...
I forgot the engine configuration of the Villiers 330.
- Villiers 330 2 engines --> ONERA Archives 2012 ZN85 - rapport 663A - SHD Chatellerault - France
F.
 
Fcl said:
Oups...
I forgot the engine configuration of the Villiers 330.
- Villiers 330 2 engines --> ONERA Archives 2012 ZN85 - rapport 663A - SHD Chatellerault - France
F.
Click to expand...

Amazing Info dear Fcl,and do you have a more info about earlier missing
designations for Villiers,such as Vil 1,6,25,27,28,29 & 30 ?.
 
Fcl said:
I have never heard of these references for Villiers aircraft/seaplanes/flyingboats.
Click to expand...
OK,but no sense to leave those designations empty,for examples; they created Villiers type 2,3,4,5 & 7 and left "6" ?,also type 23,24 & 26 and the gap "25" !, why ?!.

We can say there are unknown concepts, that's probably the logical guess.
 
hesham said:
OK,but no sense to leave those designations empty,for examples; they created Villiers type 2,3,4,5 & 7 and left "6" ?,also type 23,24 & 26 and the gap "25" !, why ?!.

We can say there are unknown concepts, that's probably the logical guess.
Click to expand...
I absolutely disagree with this approach. "Logical" just because of numbering continuity means nothing in real life.
There is no reason to think that these intermediate numbers were ever use for any reason. So please leave the holes empty, except if you have an evidence somewhere that the corresponding designation was used.

Numbers 1, 6 and 25 are "Probably never used", not "unknown project".
 
Last edited:
>> no sense to leave those designations empty
Why ?

I have an opinion but it is mine and not fully supported, it remains a hypothesis. I can share it with you.

1 - The list of known references makes me say that there was a kind of "break" in the numbering. The company started its activity in 1923 or 1924. Its first prototypes are numbered in ascending order from 1. But in 1926 or 27 we go from Villiers 11 to Villiers 23.... Why ? I think that since the Villiers company responded to a large number of military or civil "programs", it was difficult to follow the same principle without getting lost.

2 - So I suppose Villiers change the numbering and the 2 or even 3 digit numbering could indicate:

* for the leftmost digit, the decade in which the prototype is studied

* for the following digit, the prototype number

* for the possible following digit (maybe an evolution of this numbering in the 30s) , a variant of the prototype

samples: Villiers 23 is the third study of the 20s, Villiers 31, the first study of the 30s and so on...

3 - With this hypothesis, the number of unknown projects is reduced: perhaps aborted projects 21, 22 and 25 but not 27, 28 and 29 because they arrive in 1930 hence 31/310, 32/320, 33/330...

There were so many military or civil programs in France at that time that it would not be surprising if "these" 21, 22 and 25 were stillborn for questions of priorities. Remember Villiers company was a "little" company with few ressources.

just my two euro cents
;-)
 
hesham said:
OK,but no sense to leave those designations empty,for examples; they created Villiers type 2,3,4,5 & 7 and left "6" ?,also type 23,24 & 26 and the gap "25" !, why ?!.

We can say there are unknown concepts, that's probably the logical guess.
Click to expand...
You will probably be horrified by the US military skipping B-3 through B-20 designations when they announced the B-21.
SAAB cars jumped from the unbroken series of 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99 to the 900. Making matters worse by introducing the SAAB 90 car after the SAAB 900 car, with SAAB 90 already used previously for an aircraft.
Designations 100 through 899 were never used.

Some gaps in designations are better left empty.

Reality is frequently inaccurate - Douglas Adams
 
Hi,

after collapse of Villiers,Denhaut designed Seven concepts,such as
Tourist amphibian and transatlantic aircraft,also three engined torpedo
and exploration aircraft,which created in 1931/32.
 
hesham said:
after collapse of Villiers,Denhaut designed Seven concepts,such as Tourist amphibian and transatlantic aircraft,also three engined torpedo and exploration aircraft,which created in 1931/32.
Click to expand...
Do you have a source for this affirmation?
Also, was it under his own name or for different companies?
If there were as many as seven designs, I'm surprised there is no information about them.
 
Stargazer said:
Do you have a source for this affirmation?
Also, was it under his own name or for different companies?
If there were as many as seven designs, I'm surprised there is no information about them.
Click to expand...

I mentioned three of them,and that's in my files,without any reference
to the source.
 

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