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DARPA Launches Gremlins Program

bring_it_on

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdAna0aGVTE
 

bobbymike

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https://www.airforcetimes.com/newsletters/daily-news-roundup/2017/12/18/darpa-hopes-to-swarm-drones-out-of-c-130s-in-2019-test/
 

NeilChapman

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Recovering four in 30 minutes sounds like a heck of a long time to load. Seems like a pretty low threshold of success. When does that 30 minutes start, when the first one engages the docking device, when the docking device is lowered from the docking platform or when the docking platform opens its recovery doors?

SpaceX can land a rocket potentially back on it's launch platform. An F-35 can land in exactly the same spot, over and over and over again, so accurately they had to introduce variation into the software so as not to wear down the landing location. Planes and helicoptors can autonomously land on aircraft carriers.

These devices can't dock autonomously back to the docking platform? Why are humans expected to be involved in this process? Sounds like a way to reduce risk and raise costs.
 

AeroFranz

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Part of the Gremlins challenge was the characterization of the aerodynamic environment in the highly turbulent area behind the ramp or the wings with the flaps down or and the props operating. Securing the Gremlins in all degrees of freedom prior to stowage is going to be harder than the single point type of contact of aerial refueling.
Presumably the carrier C-130 could be manned and any hard contact cannot be tolerated.
 

jsport

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AeroFranz said:
Part of the Gremlins challenge was the characterization of the aerodynamic environment in the highly turbulent area behind the ramp or the wings with the flaps down or and the props operating. Securing the Gremlins in all degrees of freedom prior to stowage is going to be harder than the single point type of contact of aerial refueling.
Presumably the carrier C-130 could be manned and any hard contact cannot be tolerated.
In complete agreement and that is why this concept has never had military utility. If the payload is so sensitive that it must be returned then use a different UAS. Manned transports vulnerable to S-400 S- 500 ::)
 

Airplane

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jsport said:
AeroFranz said:
Part of the Gremlins challenge was the characterization of the aerodynamic environment in the highly turbulent area behind the ramp or the wings with the flaps down or and the props operating. Securing the Gremlins in all degrees of freedom prior to stowage is going to be harder than the single point type of contact of aerial refueling.
Presumably the carrier C-130 could be manned and any hard contact cannot be tolerated.
In complete agreement and that is why this concept has never had military utility. If the payload is so sensitive that it must be returned then use a different UAS. Manned transports vulnerable to S-400 S- 500 ::)
An expendable drone, small enough for 4 of them, able to be carried internally by an F-35 would be something to consider. Dropping 4 of them into the battlespace each with 3 to 4 hour endurance would be really awesome. When they're done, then dive bomb into a target or into the ground.

Something like a smaller tacit rainbow in size.

...or maybe 24 of them in a Bone is a better idea?
 

jsport

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Airplane said:
jsport said:
AeroFranz said:
Part of the Gremlins challenge was the characterization of the aerodynamic environment in the highly turbulent area behind the ramp or the wings with the flaps down or and the props operating. Securing the Gremlins in all degrees of freedom prior to stowage is going to be harder than the single point type of contact of aerial refueling.
Presumably the carrier C-130 could be manned and any hard contact cannot be tolerated.
In complete agreement and that is why this concept has never had military utility. If the payload is so sensitive that it must be returned then use a different UAS. Manned transports vulnerable to S-400 S- 500 ::)
An expendable drone, small enough for 4 of them, able to be carried internally by an F-35 would be something to consider. Dropping 4 of them into the battlespace each with 3 to 4 hour endurance would be really awesome. When they're done, then dive bomb into a target or into the ground.

Something like a smaller tacit rainbow in size.

...or maybe 24 of them in a Bone is a better idea?
Yeah, it is called all various versions of MALD since forever.
 

Airplane

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jsport said:
Airplane said:
jsport said:
AeroFranz said:
Part of the Gremlins challenge was the characterization of the aerodynamic environment in the highly turbulent area behind the ramp or the wings with the flaps down or and the props operating. Securing the Gremlins in all degrees of freedom prior to stowage is going to be harder than the single point type of contact of aerial refueling.
Presumably the carrier C-130 could be manned and any hard contact cannot be tolerated.
In complete agreement and that is why this concept has never had military utility. If the payload is so sensitive that it must be returned then use a different UAS. Manned transports vulnerable to S-400 S- 500 ::)
An expendable drone, small enough for 4 of them, able to be carried internally by an F-35 would be something to consider. Dropping 4 of them into the battlespace each with 3 to 4 hour endurance would be really awesome. When they're done, then dive bomb into a target or into the ground.

Something like a smaller tacit rainbow in size.

...or maybe 24 of them in a Bone is a better idea?
Yeah, it is called all various versions of MALD since forever.
No, not unless it somehow magically fits inside and F-35 now.
 

jsport

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Airplane said:
jsport said:
Airplane said:
jsport said:
AeroFranz said:
Part of the Gremlins challenge was the characterization of the aerodynamic environment in the highly turbulent area behind the ramp or the wings with the flaps down or and the props operating. Securing the Gremlins in all degrees of freedom prior to stowage is going to be harder than the single point type of contact of aerial refueling.
Presumably the carrier C-130 could be manned and any hard contact cannot be tolerated.
In complete agreement and that is why this concept has never had military utility. If the payload is so sensitive that it must be returned then use a different UAS. Manned transports vulnerable to S-400 S- 500 ::)
An expendable drone, small enough for 4 of them, able to be carried internally by an F-35 would be something to consider. Dropping 4 of them into the battlespace each with 3 to 4 hour endurance would be really awesome. When they're done, then dive bomb into a target or into the ground.

Something like a smaller tacit rainbow in size.

...or maybe 24 of them in a Bone is a better idea?
Yeah, it is called all various versions of MALD since forever.
No, not unless it somehow magically fits inside and F-35 now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveilling_Miniature_Attack_Cruise_Missile
(expendable UAV)
 

marauder2048

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Even if recovery proves to be an occasional thing you're still ending up with an expendable
with more flexible, heavier payload than MALD and (potentially much) longer range.

Provided that the recovery equipment doesn't displace some of the volley payload...
 

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jsport

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marauder2048 said:
Even if recovery proves to be an occasional thing you're still ending up with an expendable
with more flexible, heavier payload than MALD and (potentially much) longer range.

Provided that the recovery equipment doesn't displace some of the volley payload...
The 'flying coke machine' concept is one thing and would likely still need to be jet able to survive while recovering multiple large semi-attritables is another and questionable. Allowing a adversary to chase your rabbit back to its nest ::)
 

bobbymike

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https://www.army-technology.com/features/gremlins-darpa-uav-programme/

The US’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency is almost ready to unleash its Gremlins– a swarm of UAVs built to perform multiple tasks from intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR), to the delivery of arms and other essential equipment in high risk areas. Talal Husseini takes a look at the ambitious program.
 

Grey Havoc

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Trying to cut production costs perhaps?
 
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TomcatViP

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Don't see any reflex but it sure looks like a lot of camber....
just for other to build an opinion:



See here: http://www.angelfire.com/on/dragonflyaircraft/reflexing.html

Here we have body creating massive lift. As I wrote somewhere before they use the body lift for high speed low alpha and wing lift for slow speed. The problem is now that at low speed, high alpha (hence the thick wing to reduce the alpha), body nose creates a lot of adverse moment (moment that pitch up the airframe). Having a reflexed airfoil means more trim moment at equal drag. Hence soother flight in turbulence... Just the like when flying through the slipstream of a big bird...

IMOHO, it had to be noticed ;)
 
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coanda

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Tomcat, the airfoil in the picture is fairly high camber. The control surface can offer some reflex as a kind of trimmable trailing edge, but I think the baseline shape is high camber. This is a bit different to an airfoil with reflex designed in such as the NACA 24112.
 
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