Daimler Motoren-Gesellschaft

Maveric

Maveric

Fight for yor Right!
Joined
14 January 2007
Messages
2,231
Reaction score
854
Hi all,

L. 1 ???
L. 2 ???
L. 3 ???
L. 4 ???
L. 5 ???
L. 6 (D.I) Fighter 1917
L. 7 ???
L. 8 (CL.I) Battle plane 1917
L. 9 (D.II) Fighter 1918
L. 10 ???
L. 11 Fighter 1918
L. 12 ???
L. 13 ???
L. 14 Fighter 1918
L. 15 Light aircraft (Start of the numbering system of Klemm)

Without L-Number:
G. I Bomber 1915 (R.I)
G. II Bomber 1916 (R.II)
G. III Bomber 1917

Thanks Maveric
 
Hi Maveric;

the L.15 was not directly related to Klemm,but to the company was called;
Daimler-Werke Atkien-Gesellschaft of early 1920s.Later in 1927,the company
became Leichtflugzuegbau Klemm.


No 1 was a biplane of 1910.
No 3 was a monoplane of 1913.
 
hesham said:
Hi Maveric;

the L.15 was not directly related to Klemm,but to the company was called;
Daimler-Werke Atkien-Gesellschaft of early 1920s.Later in 1927,the company
became Leichtflugzuegbau Klemm.


No 1 was a biplane of 1910.
No 3 was a monoplane of 1913.
Click to expand...

Hi hesham,

do you have a source for the Biplane and the Monoplane. I can´t find them in none of my source´s.

Thanks Maveric
 
Hi,

the Daimler-Lutskoy No.1 was a monoplane of 1909,No.2 was a biplane of 1910 and
No.3 was a monoplane of 1913,the designer B.G. Lutskoy was a Russian and Daimler
built his early airplanes,maybe they are L-1,L-2 & L-3 ?.

http://chezpeps.free.fr/0/pre-1914/01-1_50-copy_paste_Breguet-Pre-1914-Aircraft-Challenge.html
 
Boris Lutsky was indeed a Russian but he designed aircraft for VB Shavrov, Rumpler, and Daimler. (He was employed at Daimler-Marienfelde until 1901 when he was hired by Grigory Lessner to help license-build Daimler trucks in Russia.)

Transliterations also get confusing. Луцкой is given as Lutsky, Lutskii, Lutskoi, Lutskoy, or Loutzkoy!

On company names ...

Daimler-Motoren-Gesellschaft Werke - 1910-1919
Daimler-Werke Atkiengesellschaft - 1919-Dec 1926
Leichtflugzeugbau Klemm GmbH - 1927-1938
Klemm Flugzeugbau Halle/Saale GmbH - 1934-1937
Hanns Klemm Flugzeugbau - 1938-Nov 1957
 
I think the designations L1, L2 and L3 for the Loutzkoy types are doubtful.

Only the first Loutzkoy plane was built by Daimler (even if there is a different opinion), and it was not a plane conceived by Daimler, but designed and ordered by Loutzkoy.

Publications about Loutzkoy are sometimes contradictory (and have always been since the 1910's).

The Russian engineer Boris Lutsky or Lutskoy (Борис Григорьевич Луцкий/Луцкой - both variants are correct) was in the first place occupied with engine and automobile construction, and worked at the end of the 19 th - beginning of the 20th century for a number of German companies, including Argus and Daimler. His German-style name was Boris Loutzkoy (and even Boris von Loutzkoy).

Due to his involvement in Argus and Daimler engines Loutzkoy came also to aviation around 1908-09.

From different sources (see below) I came to the following:
There were two original Loutzkoy types, and a third prepared by Loutzkoy for a flight from Berlin to St. Petersburg.

1. The 1909-10 unsuccesful twin-engined monoplane, called in Russian Геликоплан, an early VTOL-plane conceived by Loutzkoy and built by Daimler. Only Lange says it was built by Aeroplan-Fabrik Max Schuler in Berlin…

2. The 1912 twin-engined Rumpler-Loutzkoy Taube, built by Rumpler. Only Sobolev says Daimler participated in the building ("при участии фирмы Даймлер")...

3. The 1913 single engined Taube reengined by Loutzkoy for the flight to St. Petersburg.

Any additions welcome!

Sources:

  • Шавров В.Б., История конструкций самолетов в СССР до 1938г. (1986, 3th ed.), p. 130-133
    Соболев Д.А., "Изобретатель Луцкой", Крылья Родины, 1994 № 2, p. 14
    Kranzhoff J.A., Edmund Rumpler - Wegbereiter der industriellen Flugzeugfertigung (2004), p. 180-183
    Lange B., Typenhandbuch der deutschen Luftfahrttechnik (1986), p. 34 and 81
    And a number of Russian internetsites.

 
Thank you my dear Tuizentfloot,

but also there is many sources,said that; the Lutsky No.2 was also built Daimler;

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41669
 
As does Sobolev in his article in Kryl'ya Rodiny, and he is a reliable aviation historian. There are too many uncertainties and contradictions about Loutzkoy...
 
My dear Tuizentfloot,

This Infos came from Milan Javorsky.
 
I found a website of Milan Javorsky, but it is very general. Indeed it just says that the second Loutzkoy was built by Daimler, as does many others say (and mostly copied from each other).

Many details of Loutzkoy's planes remain unclear, including where they were built. I made the following comparison concerning the builders between the four printed sources I consulted:

1910 Gelikoplan
Shavrov: Daimler
Sobolev: Daimler
Kranzhoff: Daimler
Lange: Schüler

1912 Twin Taube
Shavrov: -
Sobolev: Daimler
Kranzhoff: Rumpler
Lange: Rumpler

1912 St. Petersburg Taube
Shavrov: -
Sobolev: -
Kranzhoff: -
Lange: -

Even Boris Loutzkoy himself has a mysterious side. Working in Germany at the beginning of WW I he was arrested as a citizen of an hostile country. His whereabouts after the war are not well-known. Usually it is said he died in or around 1920 either in Germany or in Russia. But in the twenties and thirties a number of patents were still delivered to him. And his names figures until 1943 in the Berlin address books. After 1943 no more traces of Loutzkoy are found, so probably he died around the end of WW II.
 
hesham said:
the Daimler-Lutskoy No.1 was a monoplane of 1909,No.2 was a biplane of 1910 and
No.3 was a monoplane of 1913,the designer B.G. Lutskoy was a Russian and Daimler
built his early airplanes,maybe they are L-1,L-2 & L-3 ?.

Click to expand...
Nice find my dear Richard,

and we can add generally to his activities

- G.1,G.II, & G.III bombers
- Lohner Pfeilflieger
- Bomber Project
- L-12 was a bomber/transport Project
 
I've decided to post my list of Daimler Motorengesellschaft Werke designations. I have avoided the R and G Idflieg bomber designations - beginning my list instead with the first known original airframe design. So this list runs from the L 6 up to the L 21 (after which, all designs were built by Leichtflugzeugbau Klemm).

Daimler L 6 - 1918 D.I single-seat biplane fighter; x 6*
- L 6 : Single-bay near-sesquiplane; monocoque fuselage
- L 6 : 1 x 185 hp Daimler D IIIb V8 engine; span 11.82 m
-- NB: 1 x prototype with geared Daimler D.IIIbm engine
-- D.8800/18 had geared D.IIIbm with nose-mounted rad
-- * 6 x completed of 20 x Daimler D.Is ordered

Daimler L 7 - (??) hypothical desig.; poss. Klemm design

Daimler L 8 - 1918 CL.I biplane 2-seat escort fighter; x 1
- L 8 : 1 x 185 hp Daimler D IIIb V8 engine; span 11.82 m
- L 8 : Hanns Klemm design; offered unsuccessfully to Chile

Daimler L 9 - 1918 D.II single-seat biplane fighter; x 1*
- L 9 : L 6/D.I update; single-strut, single-bay sesquiplane
- L 9 : 1 x 185 hp Daimler D IIIb V8 engine; span 9.00 m
- L 9 : Hanns Klemm design; wartime testing incomplete
-- * Mailplane conv. proposed; possible designation 'L 8V'

Daimler L 10 - (??) hypothical desig.; poss. Klemm design

Daimler L 11 - 1918 parasol single-seat fighter prototype
- L 11 : 1 x 185 hp Daimler D IIIb V8 engine; span (??) m
- L 11 : Had separate, overhung wingtip aileron balancers

Daimler L 12 - (Project) 1918 2-engined biplane heavy bomber
- L 12 : 3 x crew; Warren-truss bracing; twin biplane tailplane
- L 12 : 2 x 260 hp Mercedes D.IVa tractor engines; span (??) m
- L 12 : Ordered Sept 1918 as G.1843-15/18; canc. Nov 1918
-- Semi-complete L 12 stored at Sindelfingen, less engines*
-- * Then offered unsuccessfully to Chile as a 3-seat bomber
-- (Project) Postwar civil transport derived from L12 airframe

Daimler L 13 - (??) hypothical desig.; poss. Klemm design

Daimler L 14 - 1919 2-seat parasol escort fighter prototype
- L 14 : Parallel development to single-seat L 11 fighter
- L 14 : 1 x 185 hp Daimler D IIIb V8 engine; span 12.30 m
- L 14 : Hanns Klemm design; offered unsuccessfully to Chile
- L 14V: (Project) mailplane derivative; no sales; never built

Klemm-Daimler L-15 - 1919 2-seat ultralight motorglider; x 1
- L 15 : Sometimes refered to as the 'Klemm-Daimler L-15'
- L 15 : Strut-braced low-winged monoplane w/ open cockpit
- L 15 : 1 x 7.5 hp Indian motorcycle engine; span 12.60 m
- L 15 : Damaged before flying; repaired in 1922 as L15a*
-- * Init. flown with Indian V2 air-cooled motorcycle engine
-- * Could be flown as a glider w/ passenger seat in nose
- L 15a: Shoulder-wing monoplane with cockpit moved aft
- L 15a: 1 x 12.5 hp Harley-Davidson engine; span 16.10 m
- WL 15: (Wasser) 1924; L 15a floatplane on twin pontoons
- WL 15a: (Project) Proposed 2-seat variant; aka L 15Wa
- L 15a: 1 x 20 hp Daimler F7506 6-cyl. (by Karl Schopper)
- L 15a: 1 x 20 hp Daimler F7502 HO2 (Ferdinand Porsche)
- L 15a: Modified airframe for 1 x 40 hp Salmson AD9 radial

Daimler L 16 - 1924 light single-seat high-wing monoplane
- L 16 : Few details; said to be directly derived from L 15
- L 16 : 1 x 12 hp Harley-Davidson V2 engine; span (??) m

Daimler L 17 - 1923 single-seat high-winged test vehicle; x 1
- L 18 : Strut-braced 3-piece wing based of that of the L 15
- L 18 : 1 x 12 hp Harley-Davidson V2 engine;* span 10.20 m
-- * Engine mounted on the front spar of wing centre section

Daimler L 18 - 1924 single-seat wing profile test vehicle; x 1
- L 18 : Compared with L 15, wing profile thinner & narrower
- L 18 : 1 x 12 hp Harley-Davidson V2 engine;* span 17.10 m
-- New L 18 wing design also incorporated leading edge slats
-- * Some sources claim multiple engine types tested on L 18
-- * 20 hp Daimler F7506; Daimler F46756; 30 hp Salmson AD

Daimler L 19 - (Project) Experimental flight-test light aircraft
- L 19: Intended to test high, shoulder, & low wing positions
-- Abandoned when low-wing position chosen for prod'n L 20

Daimler L 20 - 1920 2-seat low-wing monoplane light a/c; x 82
- L 20A : Prototypes; 1 x 20 hp Harley-Davidson V2 engine; x 3
- L 20A1: L 20A conv. to prod'n-standard Daimler F7502 engine
- WL 20 : (Wasser); L 20A1 prototype conv. to floatplane
- L 20B1: 1925; as L 20A1 except torsion box-reinf'd wings; x 1
-- Klemm-Daimler L 20B1: 79 x Leichtflugzeugbau Klemm series
- L 20C1 – 2 x L 20A1 conv. with shorter wings as per the L 18*
-- * Thinner, narrow-chord wings known as Sport-Tragflächen

Daimler L 21 - 1925 single-seat twin-engined sports aircraft; x 2
- L 21 : Strut-braced parasol wing; overhung aileron balancers*
- L 21 : 2 x 20 hp Daimler F7502 air-cooled HO2s; span 10.80 m
-- * As per the wartime L 11 fighter; aka 'Daimler-Klemm L 21'
 
Klemm L.15
 

Attachments

  • Klemm L-15.jpg
    Klemm L-15.jpg
    151.3 KB · Views: 6
  • Klemm L-15-.jpg
    Klemm L-15-.jpg
    365.4 KB · Views: 4
Klemm L.18

Unfortunately, I am missing a drawing of the L.19...
 

Attachments

  • Klemm L-18.jpg
    Klemm L-18.jpg
    863.2 KB · Views: 2
Klemm L.20
 

Attachments

  • Klemm L-20.jpg
    Klemm L-20.jpg
    136 KB · Views: 3
  • Klemm L-20-.jpg
    Klemm L-20-.jpg
    218.5 KB · Views: 4
Klemm L.21
 

Attachments

  • Klemm L-21.jpg
    Klemm L-21.jpg
    136.7 KB · Views: 3
  • Klemm L-21.jpg
    Klemm L-21.jpg
    116.9 KB · Views: 4

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom