Could it fly ? : Norman Bel Geddes Airliner Nr 4

Michel Van

Michel Van

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On Airline Nr 4
A Seaplane with equipment of passenger ship with restaurants, shops, dance floor, promenade deck and Tennis courts
This is theoretical question, is this feasible to build and fly this aerial cruise ship ?


Data
Airliner Nr 4
Gross Weight: 1,275,300 lbs (578466 kg)
Wing Span: 528' 5" (161,27 meter)
Total power: 38,000 hp
Engines: 20 1,900 hp internal combustion engines (plus reserve: 6 x 1,900 hp internal combustion engines)
Cruising Speed: 100 mph (161 km/h)
Passengers: 606
Crew: 155

To compare the biggest seaplane that ever took off and fly
Hughes H-4
Gross Weight: 400,000 lb (180,000 kg)
Wing Span: 320 ft 11 in (97.54 m)
Total Power: 24,000 hp
Engines 8 × Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major radial engines, 3,000 hp (2,640 kW) each
Cruising Speed: 250 mph (407.98 km/h)
Passengers: 750 soldiers
Crew: 3
 
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It would probably fly, albeit sluggishly.
The biggest problem would be pitch changes when you adjust throttles, hence major trim drag.

While flying wing seaplanes look pretty, no one seems to have ever built one that flew well?????????
 
GTX said:
Maybe in ground effect...maybe
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Certainly, see how Hughes H-4 made it only flight. low to use ground effect.

The K2 said:
If it had enough thrust anything can fly…
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with 36000 hp, yes

riggerrob said:
The biggest problem would be pitch changes when you adjust throttles, hence major trim drag.
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biggest issue is flight stability and estimated weight of 578466 kg (build it would be even heavier !)

For my part, i would remove the two small Aircraft and there catapults, also the six lifeboats from the design
Also remodel this Heavy Engine bay, remove engine transport rails system.
and put the 6 reserve engine with propellor additional to other 20 engines, with access for engineers during flight.
pushing from 36000 hp to 47400 hp

bgdeck9enginesa-gif.80199
 
It has a power to weight ration of ~33.6, which is really low. Typically ~16lb/hp is the highest seen in commercial aircraft. Some older types are in the 20s, but not many aircraft of over 30. Flying boats have the issue of needing to get on the step for takeoff, and because of that they typically have a better power to weight than landplanes.

The wing loading is probably around ~20lb/sqft which is perfectly reasonable for this type of plane.
 
Nik said:
Would 'blowing' the step help it un-stick ??
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A little.
See the supplementary type certificate to add step vent tubes to Republic RC-3 Seabee small flying boats. I have never seen a pilot's report detailing the advantages or disadvantages of step vents.

Keep in mind that the nature of their landing areas require all seaplanes to be STOL, if only to avoid pounding in large waves. STOL performance requires both large wings and large engines. Large wings reduce touch-down speed, while large engines improve acceleration for take-off. Once airborne, the large wings and engines become a liability because the large wings create too much drag for high-speed cruise, while the large engines burn too much fuel for long range.
 
Foo Fighter said:
Whatever the tipple, I'm guessing it would be quite heavily diluted.
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In 1930s, you get the pure stuff, Including cigarets and Speed or Cocain, in time legal drugs you buy in chemist's shop in 1930s.

Back to Nr 4
Bel Geddes envision 20 engine with 1900 hp
looking in obtainable engines i would take the Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major with 3000 hp
it was used on Hughes H-4, Convair B-36 and Northrop YB-35 the flying wing bomber

sienar said:
It has a power to weight ration of ~33.6, which is really low. Typically ~16lb/hp is the highest seen in commercial aircraft.
Click to expand...
using 16lb/hp would be around 79706hp for Nr 4
That would be 26 R-4360 Wasp Major engines
another indication we have lose weight on the aircraft:
  • main lounge 36 ft high
  • 9 decks
  • 3 Kitchens
  • 13 pantries
  • library
  • writing rooms
  • 2 public dining rooms
  • main dining room coverts into a dance floor for 100 couples orchestra platform
  • 3 private dining rooms capable of feeding 40 people
  • 4 deck tennis courts
  • 6 shuffle board courts
  • 6 quoits pitches
  • library
  • 1 gym with dressing rooms and showers
  • 1 men's Solarium w/16 couches and a masseur
  • 1 women’s Solarium w/16 couches and a masseuse
  • 1 children’s playroom
  • 1 doctor's office with waiting room
  • barber shop
  • hairdresser's salon
  • 2 bars
  • 1 store
  • 1 huge promenade deck
  • 1 Veranda Cafe seats 90
  • 18 single state rooms
  • 81 double staterooms
  • 24 suites w/ baths
  • 179 sleeping rooms
  • air-conditioning
  • Two Smaller seaplane and there Catapults
  • 6 Lifeboats
 

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