Conceptual Saro twin

[zen]

An attempt to produce a design derived from Saunders Roe's P.177 mixed powerplant fighter.

 

[Archibald]

Welcome here! ;D

 

[zen]

Merci Archibald ;D
Have an idea for a Avro concept of the same type of machine, will get to it hopfully tomorrow.

 

[Apophenia]

Merci Archibald ;D
Have an idea for a Avro concept of the same type of machine, will get to it hopfully tomorrow.

Hi Zen,

I was intrigued by your Saro concept and knocked together an image.

I suspect that I got the intakes wrong. And I stuck with the prototype SR.177 canopy to keep life simpler.

Thanks for a thought-provoking what-if concept.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Very nice image! How did you create it?

 

[Apophenia]

Very nice image! How did you create it?

Thanks very much! The image was made in Photoshop.

I'd found an online photo of the Saro in 'what-if' and moved the bits around. But can I remember the source ... nooo!

I hope you'll forgive a first-timer :-[ I was sure that Brett Green was the modeller but I must have that garbled.

 

[zen]

An interesting effort Apophenia, not quite right at the back I suspect, but all round it gives a good impression. Thankyou.

The design is mine, derived from a cross section of the P177 photocopied from 'Saunders Roe Aircraft From 19___' (I forget the exact date).
The effort was to speculate on a twin engined fighter to succeed the SeaVixen assuming Saro had not suffered the cancelation of the real world machine in 1957-58.

I hope oneday to get around to producing a set of such conceptual designs for this requirement, its taken a long time to get a sense of what was possible and what diverse strands that have to alter but I now have some idea of most of the competing companies likely products.

Its just getting around to doing it and then scanning them in...

 

[Apophenia]

An interesting effort Apophenia, not quite right at the back I suspect, but all round it gives a good impression. Thankyou.

The design is mine, derived from a cross section of the P177 photocopied from 'Saunders Roe Aircraft From 19___' (I forget the exact date).
The effort was to speculate on a twin engined fighter to succeed the SeaVixen assuming Saro had not suffered the cancelation of the real world machine in 1957-58.

I hope oneday to get around to producing a set of such conceptual designs for this requirement, its taken a long time to get a sense of what was possible and what diverse strands that have to alter but I now have some idea of most of the competing companies likely products.

Its just getting around to doing it and then scanning them in...

Yes, looking at it now I can see that the engines should be set lower (more Phantom style). The spine could also be more substantial, perhaps.

I hadn't realized that it was a naval fighter. So, markings are also inappropriate. Live and learn ...

Cheers

 

[zen]

Thanks to the cranfield file on the SR.177 tunnel work, I think I can get to some numbers on this idea.

SR.177 had 327sqft of wing area, max launch weight around 28,300 ( I suspect higher), recovery 17,000lb. Speeds with blow seem well within catapult and arrestor gear requirements, lower energy hitting the wire than a Scimitar thats for sure, let alone a Buccaneer.

So in theory we have a wing and tail which can be scaled to fit the fighter needs of the RN.

Thus one might get to a conceptual fighter like the Saro twin I've been musing about all these years.

So Wing loading at take off, 86.5lb per sqft
At landing 52lb per sqft.
Thus we can scale for a 40,000lb weight and get a 462sqft wing, the machine weighing 24,028lb at landing.
Weight at recovery would be lower than a Scimitar but speed higher though still within a carriers limits.

Thrust to weight ratio needs to be preserved, so 28,300lb has 24,000lb statis sea level thrust, which means this new machine needs 34,000lb or 17,000lb per engine in reheat if two jets (option A)they'd produce about 12,000lb, which suggests a pair of late Avon's.
..............or two 9,500lb jets (reheat, in dry they'd be between 5,000-7000lb) and 14,000lb for a rocket (option B), which would produce the same sort of performance., close enough for two Gyron Juniors and a enhanced Specter rocket.

Fuel would be about 1,500-1,700gal.

Only thing is I suspect a rather poorer performance as a attack/strike machine, due to those wing loadings.