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Chinese 863-706 project, an H-6 launched MSP?

overscan (PaulMM)

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Its been reported in Janes etc that China is preparing an airborne space launcher based on the H-6 (Tu-16 clone) carrying an air launched missile.

Picture is unknown origin, from Chinese internet site.
 

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Trident

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Interesting... I played around some with gamma correction and it looks winged to me! Even on the original image the shape seems to be non-axisymmetric and while Pegasus is also winged, it does not have a tell-tale black pattern on its lower surface and nose that looks like thermal protection material. Suborbital reentry test vehicle?
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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As with all Chinese images, its hard to say, but didn't immediately look Photoshopped.
 

Michel Van

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here my Photoshop test

the H-6 has wing and a heatshield like shuttle
so we can rule out his is a not ALBM and not Pegasus like launcher

look like suborbital test vehicle for chines space shuttle program

cut be this a test for the H-2 HTOHL Program ?
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/h2htohl.htm
 

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Deino

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Some say this test is related to a "863 project" called programme with different 863-7XX re-useable shuttle (maybe also used as a sub-orbital bomber) configurations under test. Codename seems to be "Godlike Dragon" (神龙) ... at the Sinodefence-forum "mxiong" says this is TS Project 863-706

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/military-aviation-air-force/look-what-under-h6-3641.html

Deino
 

flateric

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Last posting from "mxiong" makes me seriously doubt about credibility of his previous statements.
I mean posting CGI of pressure fields/contours over McDonnell Douglas 'Generic Option II BWB Aerothermal Model' - in short, NASP, under designation "863-7XX "toy" , H-10 multi-entry space plane (bomber)".
 

Deino

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flateric said:
Last posting from "mxiong" makes me seriously doubt about credibility of his previous statements.
I mean posting CGI of pressure fields/contours over McDonnell Douglas 'Generic Option II BWB Aerothermal Model' - in short, NASP, under designation "863-7XX "toy" , H-10 multi-entry space plane (bomber)".

yes ... I had the same bad feeling ! :-[
 

flateric

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Deino, do you have any more info? Friends from Novosti Kosmonavtiki want to pull the news in February magazine.
 

Deino

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flateric said:
Deino, do you have any more info? Friends from Novosti Kosmonavtiki want to pull the news in February magazine.
I'll try my best ... would tomorrow be soon enough ?

At least so far ... picture was taken in November 2005
 

flateric

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Dear Deino, anytime you want. Am I assuming it right - original source is JDW?
 

Deino

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Sorry, need some more time to fix it ... so long here's more maybe someone can translate !

http://military.china.com/zh_cn/bbs2/11053806/20071216/14552048.html

CHeers, Deino
 

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flateric

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Deino, thanks a lot! i always wonder how are you finding all that stuff?)
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmilitary.china.com%2Fzh_cn%2Fbbs2%2F11053806%2F20071216%2F14552048.html&langpair=zh%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Not-so-bad machine translation from Google...reminds me my childhood years' Pravda headlines...
 

Michel Van

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if i read this translation right then is china working on

a plasma arc engine for deep space
and effectively strengthen party the construction and the building of leading bodies,
leading bodies = Lifting bodies

but the Picture is instresting

the model in forground is a Hermes copy
the model in background is that wat hangs as bigger version under the H-6
instresting are the cylinder behind the models, are they reentry bodys for Icbm ?
 

flateric

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LOL...no, leading bodies = Communist Party of China leaders
 

Deino

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... some concept, art and PSed whishes !

http://tuku.military.china.com/military/html/2007-12-17/40825.htm

Deino
 

Deino

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Here's Richard Fisher, Jr. conclusion or report on that "thing"

http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.174/pub_detail.asp

Deino
 

flateric

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Deino, fantastic find, thank you again!!!
 

Trident

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As an interesting aside, here's the current status of the US counterpart to this Chinese project:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/NASA/NASA/1327060/L/
 

Just call me Ray

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Trident said:
As an interesting aside, here's the current status of the US counterpart to this Chinese project:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/NASA/NASA/1327060/L/
Almost downright disgraceful, especially with all that filth covering it and...are those spike strips?
 

Orionblamblam

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Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/01/12/2011011200682.html

Hong Kong's Ming Pao daily on Tuesday said Shaanxi TV last Saturday quoted acting provincial governor Zhao Zhengyong as saying China has "succeeded in the test flight of a prototype aircraft that can fly through the atmospheric layer." Zhao was visiting a state-run aircraft corporation at Xi'an high-tech industrial development zone.

The channel showed images of a prototype space fighter being assembled whose outward appearance was almost identical to a U.S. pilotless upper-atmosphere military spaceship, the X-37B, the daily said.
 

quellish

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Perhaps like....

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3086.0/highlight,h-6.html
 

bobbymike

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OBB - It's 1975 again. America in a long costly conflict with an expansionist USSR building submarines, bombers, and ICBM's. There are even some economic similarities.

Does the US have the resources and determination to fight, possibly, another Cold War?
 

flateric

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http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23764.0
http://www.9ifly.cn/sub/thread-5167-2-1.html

wbhh
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Re: 863-706 project, new space vehicle of China.
« Reply #4 on: 01/10/2011 10:53 AM »
blackjack, you should translate it. The sentence above the photos: China's Transatmospheric Vehicle tested successfully.
This picture was captured from official TV news two days ago.

Rumors said this one is full-size and reentried into Russian territory.
well, I hope 'over Russian territory', not 'into'
 

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blackstar

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quellish

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blackstar said:
Fisher, at the International Assessment and Strategy Center, must be read cautiously. He tends to leap to conclusions not supported by the facts, and just because he includes footnotes does not mean he knows the difference between a good and a bad source.
This is more likely an X-34, rather than an X-37.
 

collins355

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You need to distinguish between the designs offered up in competition with what became the Shenzhou-series in the early 1990s, and the Shenlong launched from the H-6. They decided to go with the Shenzhou rather than any of those shuttle-like designs for manned spaceflight.
 

blackstar

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collins355 said:
You need to distinguish between the designs offered up in competition with what became the Shenzhou-series in the early 1990s, and the Shenlong launched from the H-6. They decided to go with the Shenzhou rather than any of those shuttle-like designs for manned spaceflight.
I think that what you're saying is that just because it has wings does not mean that it is all part of the same effort. They studied winged manned spacecraft in the 1990s, and decided against them. Now they are doing some research on a small winged spacecraft, but it probably has no connection to those other studies.

We should look at the recent issue of the DoD Chinese military power report and see what it mentions about this effort. That document is problematic, because it is clear that the DoD keeps things out of that report even when they have evidence, but it might provide some useful information.
 

XP67_Moonbat

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Here's a PDF summary of Chinese spaceplane developments.

http://www.strategycenter.net/docLib/20111024_ChinasSpacePlaneProgram.pdf
 

antigravite

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Hi. I'm not sure this has ever been posted here before.
But this is definitely worth looking at.
Much of this information dates back from 2010 and was circulated on other, space-related, forums.


A.
 

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kcran567

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Not to take away from China's own skill and progress, but I find it very hard to believe that China is making so much progress so quickly from their stealth projects, to space program, materials, ballistic missile tech...its got to be a huge espionage program going on with their people feeding tech from our companies via visa workers, computer hacking, and outright corruption from corporate and political traitors. remember the supposed stealth and ballistic missile tech during the Clinton/Bush/Obama administrations? Its hard not to believe that China is handing over big money to these corrupt individuals.
 

antigravite

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kcran567, all you say is right. But don't be so surprized. The Chinese information draining system is terribly efficient and I will expand a little in this. Their white world S&T draining system is very well crafted. Western press also regularly hinted that massive intelligence and hacking collection operations are conducted. Kinda business as usual in today's world.


To give you a better idea of the extent of information collection, let us begin by a ground level search. Try baidu.com, the chinese equivalent of google search engine. You can access it with keying english and any other language words and expressions. Baidu is not very interesting per se, but it's an entry point, a gate.



If you are looking for Chinese S&T literature, you may rather try wangfangadata…
http://www.wanfangdata.com/


or the all encompassing Chinese National Knowledge Infrastructure which has a "limited" english version
http://en.cnki.com.cn/


You will find journals for every discipline, every university and any subject. It is impressive. And accessible on the basis of pay-per-view, with limited clicks. Well, access to information will be far more expensive for a Western person or organization than for a local user (IP geoloc & triage).


To make a long story short, depending on whether you type in english or chinese KW, these "tools" produce results syndicating lots of indexed blogs, patents, book chapters, conference papers, etc. from any possibly indexed source (chinese, and non-chinese).


This system is so efficient, I'd be tempted to call it a "massive intelligence-and-education tool". As far as I can remember, it was partly dreamt of in the early 1980s, by Tsien, the father of the Chinese rocketry. No western country implemented any such equivalent "information collection and diffusion for education" system, because our S&T journal databases are NOT connected and cross-referencing each others efficiently. The Chinese government, in its position of a centralized authority, has finally managed to organize the systematic influx, index and archival, collection of useful information from every possible source in a way which is unknown to most of us in the West.


I hope this message partly opens your eyes and answers your implicit questions.


A.
 

kcran567

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That's interesting Antigravite, The system you are talking about seems to be working very well for their Research and development. Its a very efficient system, but not good for patent holders maybe? :-\
 
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